Adopted Malnourished corn - Feeding / Shedding question

[mightymavkev]

Hi everyone. New to the forum, so still learning.

Recently adopted a nice little corn that was a victim of a divorce. Anyway, she's about 2 years old (at least 2 years from purchase) and only about 17-19 inches. My wife works at a vet so we had her checked out and were told that she was way undersized and malnourished for a 2 year old.

So, I'm now taking care of this little gal and had a couple questions.

First, feeding. She is eating thawed fuzzies VERY aggressively (striking and constricting) twice a week and to help get her nourishment and weight back up I'm giving her 2 at each feeding.

She is not regurging and her feeding "lump" is visible for 24-36 hours but definitely not 48 hours.

She has good poops and has shed twice already in the month I've had her (hopefully due to better health and growth).

So, I was wondering if I should maintain the 2 fuzzy twice a week program or maybe move up to 1 larger size - a jumper or something - twice a week instead. Or should I back off to one feeding per week now. I ask this because I've heard that if the "lump" is not visible for 2 days, they're not getting enough at each feeding, yet 2 fuzzies twice per week seems like alot compare to others and I don't want to overfeed.

Also, regarding shedding.

She has shed twice like I said but neither were good ones. Her tail tip has already had damage due to previous bad sheds so not much I can do there. Some has already fallen off, but I think I've saved most of it by helping her with a wet towel and alot of gentle rubbing.

After helping her with the first shed, she started in blue phase again after about 7 days. This time, I put a plastic container in the "hot" side of her Viv with wet paper towels to give her a high humidity spot. At first she didn't pay attention and when I put her in it, she immediately left it. But after a couple days, I found her sitting in it on her own (which is a good sign I think).

Even so, the shed was not great. It was better than the first one, but still not very good (a couple big pieces, but still alot of stuck pieces and the tail again).

I'm hoping that it will just take some time before she gets healthy enough to have good sheds again but I wanted to ask if you all felt there was anything else I should do or watch for.

Thanks to everyone and I apologize for the long post. (I tend to ramble I know).

thanks again,

Kevin.

P.S. Kathy Love, if you're out there - I love your book - and thanks for all your help so far!!!!!

 

[cka]

Hey Kevin, your totally on the right track with what you are doing :*). I wouldn't be real hasty to bump her up to a bigger size mouse, but if you do, try every 5-7 days and get her out for some "stresscercize". As she builds up strength and size she'll need plenty of exercise to turn it all into muscle (it's good to let 'em poop first in their enclosure ) Same with the Humidity, adding a humid hide will help get her skin in condition to where she'll shed better and better each time...

Congrats, and ramble away, my friend

 

[Nanci]

I'm no expert, but what works for me to increase the humidity is putting plastic wrap over much of the top, and misting/sprinkling once, then monitoring with a hygrometer. I also have a moist hide in there, but mine has spanish moss in it. My wild snake knew exactly what to do the minute she discovered it. She doesn't go in there on every shed, though, just usually.

Nanci

 

[sarah s]

On the feeding issue I would increase her food size to hoppers or adults if she can take them and stick to her same shedule of twice a week feeds if you find she needs or wants more than one prey item at a time then let her have them if you think she can cope with it. However to prevent her getting to fat try giving her some supervised exercise each day other than when she is digesting for as long as she wants. It is what I am doing with the little one I rescued in the same kind of state as yours and she seems to be thriving on it.
I have got to the point where My little one now waits to poo in her exersise box rather than her viv most of the time, makes it easyer for cleaning up.
My little one is a 05 and so is apporximately a year old and was only bout 10 to 12 inchs and 9 grams when I got her in May she is now 26 inchs and 51 grams so I think we are gradually catching up to where we should be.
I have only offered multiple prey items when moving up a size but thats as I dont think she could handle multiples all the time and I dont want her to get conditioned into eatting to much or getting greedy. So at the moment she gets a hopper every 5 days I hope that soon I can gradually work her down to a more acceptable feeding sheduale for her age.
I have not had to worry with shedding probs with my little rescuse shes been lucky there but the fact your girl has gone into blue so soon after she shed could indicate that there might be a mite or other skin irritation problem it might be worth getting it checked out to be safe.

 

[mightymavkev]

Thanks for the quick response and encouragement. I've never considered myself a "snake" person. Didn't really fear them or anything but never really thought I'd be a snake owner, but I have to admit, she's beautiful and amazing to watch and learn about.

Regarding mites. No evidence of any. Vet gave her a clean bill of health from that standpoint. I even scanned pretty close myself with a magnifying glass and haven't seen anything.

I have seen one very very small irritation in her scales when they are stretched during feeding. It is so small you can't see it unless she's eating and it looks more like an older healed over scratch or scar than any sort of fresh wound. I'll keep an eye on it.

So how do you exercise? I have her in my old 55 gallon so she's got lots of room but she seems kinda lazy. I'm not sure if that is due to her health or personality, but she really doesn't show any signs of illness - just small for her age. Also, she's eating twice per week so 4-6 days of the week are occupied with digestion .

I feed her in her original Viv, which is a 5 gallon glass tank. Do you think I should let her out in that container on non-digesting days with no hides to make her move around more?

I really can't let her "OUT" out - like on the carpet and stuff - because I have other critters that would "love" her in all the wrong ways if you know what I mean (3 dogs, 4 cats). I do hold her while I watch TV every so often, but she doesn't try to get away from me and ends up kinda just sitting there. LOL, maybe she's just spoiled!!!

Anyway, thanks for the help!!

 

[bitsy]

First off - good on you for taking on a problem child in need of help.

Agree with comments above on exercise. Increased feeding is good at this stage, but as she's been underfed for so long, she risks storing the extra as fat, which will shorten her lifespan. She'll probably have a very low metabolism at the moment, so if she gets some exercise, her metabolism will start to ramp up and she'll be more likely to form muscle with the extra food.

If she seems too stressed by handling or you feel that there's a risk of regurging, maybe put some climbing branches her viv and give her plenty of plastic foliage to give extra cover to hide in. The more secure she feels in her home, the more likely she is to come out from her hide and move around in it.

As far as the shedding goes, if she's malnourished then this will probably mean she has trouble forming the scales and the layer of lubricant underneath it needed to shed cleanly. I guess it's her body trying not to "waste" precious resources.

My feeling at the moment is that her shedding will improve as she adjusts to the more generous feeding regime. As she's likely to put on a growth spurt with the extra feeding, she's likely to go through quite a rapid shed cycle for a few months.

I think you're doing all the right things with the damp hide. Maybe you could invest in something like ShedEase or a reptile skin conditioner, which might make things easier for the next few sheds?

All the best to you.

 

[diamondlil]

Personally I'd be more inclined to let her feed and grow at this stage. If she starts to get soft and squishy then it'll be time to think about lots of exercise, at the moment the reduced shed cycle could also be due to her healing old scars or accommodating the growth spurt due to her finally getting a decent feeding schedule. Good rescue! :cheers:

 

[sarah s]

I also have 3 cats so I exersice my little one with the door closed and no cats in the room. Due to the room I have her in having good hidding places that at her current size she could get in, but I would have trouble getting her out of I use a banana box to exersise her in. The climbing branches in her viv would also be great for her and give her some more exersise. As she is malnurished she will also have bad musle tone which wont be good for her for digestion etc and could cause her trouble which is the other reason I sugested exersising her so she can strech right out and have a good crawl around. My little one also climbs around in her box she likes to climb through the holes in the sides and over to top and then with my hand suporting her work her way round the outside of the box and go back in via a different hole.

 

[mightymavkev]

By the way, I should have included the info about her environment along with my questions.....sorry about that.


55 gallon aquarium
UTH on outside bottom of one side
Aspen shavings - about 1-1.5 inches
manufactured "cave" hide on warm side
manufactured "log" hide on cool side
manufactured branch in middle for climbing
10" diameter "rock" water bowl in middle of tank

Lighting is flourescent. half normal and half UV (I know, not necessary, but Vet thinks some snakes like it - shrug). Turn lights on in the day and off at night.

Digital temp/humidity with probe. Humidity runs consistent 44-48% with screen top. Temp on warm side measures 89-90 on Aspen surface (a little high, but she likes it and stays on that side almost all the time). I haven't bought a thermostat yet. Will keep watching temp on warm side though and if get's more into the 90s, I'll get one and keep it down a bit.

Like I said, I don't know if any of this matters, but you never know what tidbit of information might help.

 

[sarah s]

My little one is on a 5 day feeding cycle and gets left for 48 to 72 hours for digestion and then gets exersised after that each day. I also normally give her at least 1/2 an hour minimum. I dont time her exersise and as she seems ok with being out we often end up sitting there with her out for an hour or more at a time while she explores her box and the smells etc. Durring this time we also have lots of cuddles and climbing over mum's hands and sitting perched happerly on mum's hands as well. We always end on a nice calm note where she is in my hands or on my arm and nice and calm and relaxed before she gets put back into her viv. I basically just open her viv and place my hands near it and she crawls off and double checks where she is before settling down for a nap.

 

[diamondlil]

just 1 point, it's the temperature on the glass, under the substrate you'll want to measure. This will be the hottest point, and corns can (and do) burrow under their substrate to warm up and get burnt. If you get a high reading, then a teporary measure before you get a rheostat or thermostat could be to raise the viv higher up off the uth.

 

[gwb8568]

all i can say is congrats on your corn, welcome to the forum/addiction and thanks for taking care of an unhealthy corn. plenty of answers can be found here and everyone is pretty friendly. sounds like you are on the right track and the information given to you so far should help you out. please post pics when you get the chance and let us know when you get your next one. :grin01:

 

[mightymavkev]

yeah. it's mid to high 90's on the glass surface. She used to go under the shavings all the time and I'd find her in different spots every time I checked on her - which told me she was finding the best temperature spot for what she needed - so I wasn't too worried about it.

But lately, she spends most of her time in her "warm" side hide. She doesn't seem to bury herself in the shavings anymore and instead sits curled up either on the surface in the hid or up on one of the shelves in the hide.

Tell you the truth though, I'm not happy just leaving that UTH run all the time and I can't lower it physically as I was an idiot and stuck it to the glass when I got it before reading forums that tell me NOT to do that (oh well).

I'm gonna get a thermostat.

 

[bitsy]

Do you think I should let her out in that container on non-digesting days with no hides to make her move around more?

Must admit I wouldn't go for that. Corns are natural hiders and if forced out into the open she could get stressed. Then you'll potentially be dealing with regurges and refusal to feed, which would be a nightmare at this stage of the game.

The viv sounds good, and with a thermostat, will be great. I'd still advise stuffing it with as many hides and as much general cover as you can. Corns don't need open spaces - what they appreciate is the feeling that they can move about freely and be hidden from sight.

 

[mightymavkev]

Thought I'd post a pic and give an update.

She's still eating two fuzzies twice a week. this pic was last night (10/2/06) in her feeding tank. Snakemeasurer says she is 24.89 inches. She is shedding about every 7 days.

She shed last on Wednesday (9/27/06). This time unassisted and complete (although still multiple pieces).

My wife and I measured her by hand with a string a couple weeks ago and came up with 19-20 inches. so either we were way off on the string thing or she's grown 4 inches or so in the last couple weeks (think we were probably less than accurate with our measuring).

Thanks to everyone for the help and encouragement.

By the way, anyone care to take a stab at identifying what kind she is? I'm not sure from comparing pics but she looks closer to the Okeetees. Any ideas?

Thanks again,

Kevin.

 

[paulh]

She is shedding about every 7 days.

She shed last on Wednesday (9/27/06). This time unassisted and complete (although still multiple pieces).

By the way, anyone care to take a stab at identifying what kind she is? I'm not sure from comparing pics but she looks closer to the Okeetees. Any ideas?

Unless the coloration is way off, I'd say a nice-looking normal corn (not an Okeetee).

At this age, shedding every week and in multiple pieces isn't right, in my opinion. I've had a similar problem once or twice, and a good liquid multiple vitamin for birds (with vitamin D3) fixed it up. I cut a hole in the belly of a dead mouse and put a drop inside the mouse. Repeat twice in the first month and once a month for the next two months.

Good luck.

 

[gwb8568]

a very light colored normal so far with just this pic...........awesome "hourglass" middle of back, and another funky little mark farther down towards the tail on the upper side (pretty much on side between the dorsal and ventral area). looks like a black blotch/saddle border with no color in the middle. :shrugs:

awesome adoption again.

 

[diamondlil]

What a lovely result! She looks like a very pretty normal to me, with really nice contrast between the body and saddle colour

 

[bitsy]

I have to say that although very small for her age, she doesn't actually look malnourished as such. She has good proportions and nice body mass.

Corns suffering from the effects of starvation are in visibly poor physical condition, with folds of loose skin, protruding spines, sunken bellies and heads that look gigantic in proportion to their bodies. She seems in pretty good nick.

I'd say once you get a sensible feeding regime established, that'll sort the shedding problem. She'll probably never be a giant amongst Corns, but she's a smasher! :cheers:

 

[mightymavkev]

I have to say that although very small for her age, she doesn't actually look malnourished as such. She has good proportions and nice body mass.

Yeah, she's doing really well. The "malnourished" comment came from the vet initially and I think was more aimed at how drastically undersized she is for a 2 year old snake.

Each shed is getting better. She completed the last one all on her own and within a couple days of coming out of "blue". You guys are the experts that's for sure, but based on behavior, I gotta believe the frequent sheds are just from accelerated growth after being stunted for so long.