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Amel/Ghost breeding pair - £180 - good idea?

Jemma, I am going to offer you some advice which you may or may not like, but I feel it is necessary to make you aware of some factors.

The pair of "adult" snakes you are interested in sound like a bad deal. A cohabed pair of snakes that have bred 2-3 times already screams trouble to me. The female has probably been bred far too ealy in her life due to the cohabitation, and it just does not seem fair to take her out of that environment only to continue breeding her with no viable outlet or justification for her offspring. Normal corn snakes are not desirable by hobbyists keepers and breeders. They are usually bought as a first snake from a pet store and end up in the wrong hands the majority of the time. They are not selling well in the UK market at the moment.

Breeding for the sake of breeding is what is crashing the UK market, and I feel it is the responsibility of us, the hobbyists to take it into our hands to stop unnecessary breeding. We don't need more normal, anery, amel etc corn snakes. I know the prospect of breeding is exciting and fun. The only thing I can suggest is that if you are hell bent on making your own hatchlings, why not incubate only one or two eggs and keep the hatchlings. That way you do not have to worry about an outlet for the hatchlings.

Why not wait until your snakes are of breeding age and weight to produce hatchlings? You are only starting out in this hobby. I know how it feels at first to want everything in sight and to be a "breeder". But it takes a lot of knowledge and experience to do things right. You will need to learn from your mistakes down the line. We all make them. What I am trying to say is try not to rush into anything.

The boa you describe sounds like an amazon tree boa. If it is an adult it is most likely WC, and will most likely have a nasty streak. Amazons at the best of times are bitey, every WC specimen I have met has wanted to eat my face. Amazons also require a lot of time and dedication due to their more complex husbandry requirements compared to corn snakes. If it is WC you will need to ask if it has been treated for internal and external parasites. If not, vet visit ahoy to be on the safe side!

If you want to branch out why not try some other colubrids? Kings, milks, rats etc? Something similar to corns which you already have experience with. Cheap snakes are cheap for a reason. Source snakes which you know you WANT and remember you can save up! Buying from a reputable breeder reduces the risk of bringing any diseases or parasites into your collection as well as ensuring you will have healthy CB pets. And remember, if you are going to buy new snakes, quarantine, quarantine, quarantine!
 
some good info, but i would add.. the uk market is as much on a downhill course due to importing many thousands of morphs we already have as much as heavy breeding here.
 
yeah I know.. i have no issues with anyone bringing over rare morphs, that maks sense and helps out, but there is little point bringing in anything that is easily obtainable here.. and its not all about money, as the prices now really are not all that much different.
 
Tree Boas have very different husbandry requirements to Corns, so that'll need some heavy-duty research before you know whether you'll be comfortable to take it on. They don't have a reputation for particularly liking the human race - they're the sort of snake you tend to admire from a distance and handle as little as possible, with a hook. I did some preliminary research myself a few years ago and decided against.

Know what you mean about the attractive/ugly thing though! Fascinating looking snakes.

Went down to the shop for another look. He was curled up and actually hissed a little at me - they have him labelled properly now, it might have been my eyes to be honest, orange marker on glass isnt the most visible. He is perfectly ok to handle and not in the least hateling - but I did manage to trigger a feeding strike twice - which is different from a hateling strike. Fingers anywhere near heat pits and he did the same thing the corns do - went still and quiet - tested my fingers a couple of times really gently with his tongue - then went dead still and opened his mouth expecting to be fed. The only difference I noticed was that while my corns will only chew on Jemma if there is mouse smell about, this one doesnt seem to bother about the difference between human and mouse... maybe to do with their environment where food is less available? At no time did I feel nervous of him. Its partly that he has such a wonderfully calm demenour that I want him.
I looked him over very carefully checking for anything - and also asked bout the history - apparently he was bought in by the manager of the shop no less from his personal collection... he's an 05 and has like an olive green sage green colouration...
It was quite amusing to the assistant girl who was with me - that it was possible to lead him round the viv he was in literally by him following your finger with his heat sensors - which he didnt seem to mind in the slightest...
 
some good info, but i would add.. the uk market is as much on a downhill course due to importing many thousands of morphs we already have as much as heavy breeding here.

I understand that - from what I have worked out an amel/ghost should make lil Amels with het for ultramel - and I think I might have a market for them just up the road...

I know this is a weird question - but has anyone ever heard of a release programme for these in the UK? since they would probably manage in our climate... its not something I would do, but I am just curious if anyone has tried it
 
So far as research on the ATB's go - I have looked into them carefully and I am pretty sure I can adapt the viv I have now for him - considering they dont move about much.

Apparently its not uncommon for ATB's to curl up in their water dish - since they require ultra high humidity and being too dry can kill them - so daily misting and a large waterbowl and a branch to curl up on are in order...

I may not be experienced with snakes but I would never ever knowingly or deliberately put any animal at risk full stop. same goes for humans - myself being somewhat of a special case... for reasons I dont wish to share on here.
 
I understand that - from what I have worked out an amel/ghost should make lil Amels with het for ultramel - and I think I might have a market for them just up the road...

I know this is a weird question - but has anyone ever heard of a release programme for these in the UK? since they would probably manage in our climate... its not something I would do, but I am just curious if anyone has tried it

hi jem, there are so many corns in the wild in the uk now, i have said for years its only a matter of time until they mate and eggs survive.. i doubt its happened yet, but i still think it will.
as for the outcome, unless i missed a bit on the pairings, you wouldnt have anything to do with ultra in the litter at all.
unless there were hidden hets you would get all normals het coral snow.. so hypo, amel and anery,
 
I understand that - from what I have worked out an amel/ghost should make lil Amels with het for ultramel - and I think I might have a market for them just up the road...
Unless the ghost is heterozygous for amel and ultra, how did you get that outcome? Normals het for amel, hypo and anery is what you'd expect from amel x ghost.
 
I got that from the breeding programme that was suggested online - but it sounds like it might be wrong so thats not a problem.. I dont mind so long as they are healthy and happy lil babbies.

The girl snake might be however - she is very very quiet, happily sits still and quiet all the time...

I fed them medium mice two days ago - and while the boy (who is much bigger) took only the one - she scarfed down 3! this is the exact opposite of what the former owner told me :S

He's relieved himself twice and wow what a stink - but she hasnt done a thing and its worrying me slightly that shes sposed to have mated yet her aft 2/3rds along the belly seems very slack and empty...

I split them up and put her in a smaller viv that I have having moved the two babies into small vivs in which they seem to be happy - but she didnt move for a solid 48 hours - although she seems to be alert, fully mobile - and I dont know if this is a thing with female cornsnakes but she seems to like curling in my hair and on my glasses - which is ok when a snake weighs 50g or so - not so fun when shes about 2/3 kg.

Another quick question - when an adult is being fed should they have a visible bump if I am feeding the right size of feed. If a medium mouse barely makes a bulge (or even three of them) what do I go to next - rats?

sorry for the essay again...
 
I fed them medium mice two days ago - and while the boy (who is much bigger) took only the one - she scarfed down 3!
Three medium mice in one go? That's way too much. I'm not surprised she's keeping still - too much activity and she'd risk a regurge.

its worrying me slightly that shes sposed to have mated yet her aft 2/3rds along the belly seems very slack and empty...
Just because a female was mated, doesn't necessarily mean that it was successful. If her rear third feels a bit jelly-like, then that could indicate that she's gravid. On the other hand, a heavily-gravid female would probably not take three medium mice in once sitting.

when an adult is being fed should they have a visible bump if I am feeding the right size of feed. If a medium mouse barely makes a bulge (or even three of them) what do I go to next - rats?
Nope. The "visible bump" aspect doesn't apply once a Corn is adult. They should eat no more than one large mouse at a time - if a Corn's capable of taking three mediums, then it'll be fine with one large. They rarely need anything larger - I won't say "never" because I know some people here do feed rats. But you don't need to continually increase food size throughout a Corn's life.
 
which is ok when a snake weighs 50g or so - not so fun when shes about 2/3 kg.

I'm sorry, are you talking about your corn snake or some sort of medium sized boid?!

Corn snakes rarley exceed 1000 grams (1k) and even at that they tend to be on the slightly overweight side. The average adult corn snake weighs between 300-500 grams. I know of no corn snake that has ever reached 2k nevermind 3k. I imagine it would be a horrific sight, and sheer abuse from overfeeding.

Corn snake adults need only 1 meal every 2 weeks to thrive... not grow. 3 medium mice in one sitting is asking for a regurge. You will not need more than an extra large mouse at the most for even the biggest of corns so forget rats. They are far more fatty than mice and preferable to feed to larger and more heavily bodies snakes.
 
sigh

2-3 kg two or three kg
2/3kg two thirds of a kilo - which is probably on the high side for her because shes not that big

since I dont have scales - I dont know what either of them weigh - just estimating tbh

shes got the jelly belly certainly so I suspect shes gravid - and had them both out on the sofa while I cleared out the poop mountain in one of the vivaria - and if she wasnt fertilized before she is now... looked over to see the cushions they were under as a makeshift hide wriggling around oddly and they had paired up on the chair - cue grab for the kitchen roll so no icky stains on the chair.

re the mices - she was utterly immobile before I fed her and has since livened up a little - and was the one who produced poop-mountain so at least I know she isnt blocked up at all... which was worrying me.

I havent found any other information about the no bulge for adult thing on here so it might be an idea if it was posted more often - its a fair chance there are alot of people doing the same as I did - hence alot of snakes around with a figure like marylin monroe...
 
sigh

2-3 kg two or three kg
2/3kg two thirds of a kilo - which is probably on the high side for her because shes not that big

since I dont have scales - I dont know what either of them weigh - just estimating tbh

shes got the jelly belly certainly so I suspect shes gravid - and had them both out on the sofa while I cleared out the poop mountain in one of the vivaria - and if she wasnt fertilized before she is now... looked over to see the cushions they were under as a makeshift hide wriggling around oddly and they had paired up on the chair - cue grab for the kitchen roll so no icky stains on the chair.

re the mices - she was utterly immobile before I fed her and has since livened up a little - and was the one who produced poop-mountain so at least I know she isnt blocked up at all... which was worrying me.

I havent found any other information about the no bulge for adult thing on here so it might be an idea if it was posted more often - its a fair chance there are alot of people doing the same as I did - hence alot of snakes around with a figure like marylin monroe...
I know you're keen to plunge straight into breeding, but without knowing the correct feeding regime for heathy adult corns, without a good history on the female, and without a weight? A female in breeding condition should be lean and muscular and weigh around 300g, not squishy at all. 'jello butt' is seen just before laying, when the ligaments start to soften, it doesn't describe a healthy breedable female corn.
 
He's relieved himself twice and wow what a stink - but she hasnt done a thing and its worrying me slightly that shes sposed to have mated yet her aft 2/3rds along the belly seems very slack and empty...

Hmm, a female that has already laid will also feel slack and empty. Are you sure she hasn't already laid a clutch before being sold to you? It's just a thought.
 
Hmm, a female that has already laid will also feel slack and empty. Are you sure she hasn't already laid a clutch before being sold to you? It's just a thought.

Thinking about it and the sort of person the seller was I wouldnt be at all surprised actually - the snake is strong and mobile no problem - but if she runs over my finger its like a snake of two halves, shes strong but seems to be slack around the belly area - and that would fit with her flagging the male the other day.

Another thing - its odd - the backbones on either of them dont show - its sort of the opposite - there is a dip were the spine is which looks a little weird to me - they're eating and drinking ok but they do seem very nervous - lots of tail rattling...

Im not really bothered about the breeding thing - I guess Id like them to be a little friendlier but so long as they are healthy that is the main thing tbh.
 
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