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Any Ideas???

I'm 99.9% sure she was not bred by another male. I also did not breed her last year so retaining the sperm would have been for a very long time. I did find some other pics of the first male and his eyes are without a doubt red. So Two homo amels created a non-amel? Tara, that sounds pretty exciting! I'll keep this guy/girl for sure! Does everyone think it looks like a motley normal or caramel?
 
They should have red eyes. That's what I was thinking. I got my husband to get the genetic wizard back on my laptop.
 
It is possible that one of your males or females is actually a Chimera and its sexual organs are that of a Motley Het Butter. Either that or another male got in there (has it had even a photoshoot or something with a different male at some point?) or possibly the was retained sperm from 2 years previous...
 
Excellent! What an interesting surprise. I look forward to seeing the entire clutch .
 
Tara80 said:
The thing that is exciting about it though, is that the 'unexplainable' is always explainable. IF for some reason, that baby DID come from one of those fathers (and no chance of retained sperm or accidental breeding to another male) than you've technically got a gold mine there for another gene that, one way or another, can interact with the Amel gene.
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So, if that is what is happening, you'd need two copies of the mystery gene in order to find out what it is, because the baby is normal het X-gene? Hopefully, if this _is_ what is happening, you get a pair...

I wonder if things like this have happened to Rich, and that is why, at the end, he had normals he'd kept for some reason, just couldn't remember why.
 
torsten said:
It is possible that one of your males or females is actually a Chimera and its sexual organs are that of a Motley Het Butter. Either that or another male got in there (has it had even a photoshoot or something with a different male at some point?) or possibly the was retained sperm from 2 years previous...
Click to expand...

They can retain sperm that long? :eek:
 
They can retain sperm that long?
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I don't know... retaining for 1 year happens not uncommonly, I don't know what the 'shelf life' of snake sperm is though and I doubt too much research has been done on it either... lol
 
Two more surprises came up. Another normal or caramel motley, and a striped butter that looks a lot redder came up. The mother is het stripe and I didn't know if one of the fathers were or not. Here are some more pics. The 2nd weirdo pip, ducked back into his egg for the pictures.

DSC00303.jpg

DSC00302.jpg
 
In the first group pic, with the "striped" one, there looks to be another motley of the same intensity. Well, at least you got two "normals." Hopefully a pair!! Weird.
 
The odd-balls look to be normal motleys, not caramel motleys. And the one "stripe" is actually a motley with a long pin-stripe pattern. The stripe gene does not have to be involved at all. And it looks to be an amel pin-striped motley.

You now have 3 hatchlings that do not fit the genetic make-up of the parents. I would consider that to indicate more than what retained sperm or spontaneous genetic mutations would allow. You had to have had a third male in the mix somewhere that you need to try to identify. You need to think if you housed the female with any other snake at all at any time, perhaps with other females during brumation or afterward such as when cleaning. It wouldn't be the first time that an unproven or subadult female turned out to be a male.

Oh, you are looking for a snake that is either homozygous motley or stripe (or het motley het stripe), is also het amel, and is NOT homozygous caramel (can be het caramel).
 
V_Various could make a really good cartoon of this. Mommy snake on the Jerry Springer show. The two dads sitting in chairs. They get their envelopes saying they are not the fathers. Then the mystery dad slithers out- and they all get in a big brawl and start throwing stuff around!

Sorry....I had a moment there.
 
Nanci said:
V_Various could make a really good cartoon of this. Mommy snake on the Jerry Springer show. The two dads sitting in chairs. They get their envelopes saying they are not the fathers. Then the mystery dad slithers out- and they all get in a big brawl and start throwing stuff around!

Sorry....I had a moment there.
Click to expand...

I was right with you! Immagine the child support for a whole -clutch- of babies!! that would be an intense episode. lol
 
Thank you for all of your responses. The only possible Male I had that could have made these is a Hypo Motley het Amel and poss het lavender. I do not remember having them in the same terrarium and would not have put them in the same place, but I guess that would be the only snake I have that could have caused these two or three oddballs. My last normal finally came out and he has the pin-stripe pattern as well. I may keep one normal to breed with a hypo to test for hypo in 2 years.
 
Is there someone else that may have had the opportunity to put them together? Family member, friend or someone who looked after them for a week-end while you went away?
 
The more I think about it, the more sure I am that she was never with any other males. No one watched them and my children are only 2 and 4 so I doubt they could do anything. My guess is that perhaps she has held semen from another breeding in the past and that fertilized a couple of eggs while my Motley butter fertilized the rest. That is the only thing I can think of.
 
Btw, These butter motley hatchlings are for sale now as well as some hatchling abbotts okeetees. I'm asking $20 each. Also have 2 motley normals het butter and unknown and an amel motley- partial striped het butter and unknown.

thx,

Mike
 
wow thats crazy!!! Maybe retained sperm? Or a new gene lol.. ?? Maybe Buf... Sorry I had too... I hope you can figure this all out.. We need DNA testing for snakes..
 
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