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are you still feeding your snake mice & rats ???
- Thread starter Vinman
- Start date
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MegF.
That's for sale???
This has been a thoroughly interesting thread. I'm intrigued by the idea, but I don't think I'd risk the use of chicken parts. Cooking the meat is one of the things that bothers me most. There are many species of animal out there who cannot tolerate cooked meals. You have to feed raw food for instance to hawks and falcons. Cooking makes the source completely undigestible, and lacking in nutrition. Will they eat it? Yes. Is it good for them? No. I also think the big problem of not feeding any gut type product would be a problem as well. Yes, liver, heart, etc, provides organ meat, but you're lacking in intestine and stomach content. There are loads of beneficial nutrients and bacteria included there. Kathy Love stated that she fed UNCOOKED (just emphasizing, not yelling) chicken parts periodically to her snakes, but again, it did not make up the majority of food. I would really like it if you could show how much you feed to each snake, a chart of their growth, etc. It would be difficult to show proof of benefits without a control group however. Some months back, Connie gave us valuable info on the cutting of back skin on mice to improve the growth rate of snakes. She made sure she had control groups and did different things to the mice and then recorded results. I was able to make an educated decision based on research. I also knew that it would not harm my snakes in any way if I tried it. At most, I wouldn't see a benefit. Unless you could show me some type of research to back up your claims of safety and health, I don't think I would feel comfortable trying something this drastic. My snakes mean a lot to me.
Vinman
Vinman
megF cool you worded your post in a nice way you stated oppoin without getting nasty. Like I said before I gona go for the long haule 2 1/2 is just a start. I do agree that more time needs to be given so far so good the only proff is my animals which I cant show you because have no caramra. Ask Rich Z about the hypo blood lav. breeder male I sold him It was raised on pork ,chicken and turkey
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Well this has been really fun, but as more and more responses by the Vinman have been displayed I increasingly get the idea that someone's fishing for inflamed responses and posts. With all of the well-meant posts and threads, Vinny continues to choose one or two minor items in a post to 'explode' upon. Quite frankly it's tiring me out and wasting my valuable time. You can only work so hard to try and help someone out.
Never once have I told you Vinman to not do what your doing, in fact I offered a phrase of good luck. I just hope those that read this thread have become informed enough to not try it as I think it's not a good idea as a regular maintenance diet. Again, good luck with your experience.
. . . now I'm off to find that 'ignore user' function . . .
D80
Never once have I told you Vinman to not do what your doing, in fact I offered a phrase of good luck. I just hope those that read this thread have become informed enough to not try it as I think it's not a good idea as a regular maintenance diet. Again, good luck with your experience.
. . . now I'm off to find that 'ignore user' function . . .
D80
Vinman
Vinman
Drizz 80
cause all you is put me down the last post I sent was not nasty I just corrected what you said about me You tell me to listen to a pirson that lives out of state that said it was not aginst the law to raise mice . Mean while Me and my friend have the NYC health Dep. in our homes ready to give us a ticket. How come you did not ask her what penile code it was ,you know for proff. and If you did I would have looked it up . But I did not have to when she explaned her self I realised what law she was talking about Although It may not be a state or city law ,It is a board of health Dept. code You cant raise mice & rats in In NYC unless to are a licensed lab . You dont realize that I'm a volenteer with the NYC parks Dept working with restoeing native herps to city parkes. also I was volenteer at the Bronx zoo reptile house. William Holmstrom is the collection manager He is next in line to the curator of the Bx. zoo reptile house He is in many books. when I told him about my diet He told make sure you cook the meat good so you dont get salmonella . THe largest burm. python the ever had was raiesed on super market chickin THE chicken was feed raw and he died of salmonella after living many years. H e told me this nothing new that many people years ago would feed chicken parts to boa and pythons and did well . I know a guy in NJ that used to raise boa and pythons He raises bearded dragons. I told him about the heat on this board He laughed and told He feed nothing but turkey and chicken drum stickes and thighs to his snakes For many years and never told anybody because ther did not want the flack from others breeders like the crap that I'm catching off this board. like I said before this my pet project and we will see how this goes
cause all you is put me down the last post I sent was not nasty I just corrected what you said about me You tell me to listen to a pirson that lives out of state that said it was not aginst the law to raise mice . Mean while Me and my friend have the NYC health Dep. in our homes ready to give us a ticket. How come you did not ask her what penile code it was ,you know for proff. and If you did I would have looked it up . But I did not have to when she explaned her self I realised what law she was talking about Although It may not be a state or city law ,It is a board of health Dept. code You cant raise mice & rats in In NYC unless to are a licensed lab . You dont realize that I'm a volenteer with the NYC parks Dept working with restoeing native herps to city parkes. also I was volenteer at the Bronx zoo reptile house. William Holmstrom is the collection manager He is next in line to the curator of the Bx. zoo reptile house He is in many books. when I told him about my diet He told make sure you cook the meat good so you dont get salmonella . THe largest burm. python the ever had was raiesed on super market chickin THE chicken was feed raw and he died of salmonella after living many years. H e told me this nothing new that many people years ago would feed chicken parts to boa and pythons and did well . I know a guy in NJ that used to raise boa and pythons He raises bearded dragons. I told him about the heat on this board He laughed and told He feed nothing but turkey and chicken drum stickes and thighs to his snakes For many years and never told anybody because ther did not want the flack from others breeders like the crap that I'm catching off this board. like I said before this my pet project and we will see how this goes
E. g. guttata
Her name was Mary-9/17/05
Vinny, I think you just have a way of turning everything into "flack". No one on this board is condemming you, in fact (with the exceptions of a few of my posts), we have all been trying to help you, offer a few words of advice and things we do not totally agree with. In this case, I feel that you are just taking things personally because we are not praising you for your experimentation, but instead are questionins you on how you plan on making up for some of the things that will no longer be in the diet. As soon as those questions came out, you blew up. As soon as I made my statement about how I was worried about your snakes possibly dieing prematurely (I probably could have worded it different) you started getting down right pissy. All anyone here is saying is that they want to see results from more than 2 1/2 years of feeding, and most of us want those results in writing, with and experimental and control group. That's the way you get people to listen. You give them proof, not one of the "A friend of my friend said"-type phrases. Though I am not sorry about anything I have previously said, I am willing to offer my opinion on this topic again, assuming that you're open-minded enough to listen this time, and not start another pissing contest because you've been breeding snakes longer than I've been alive. Sometimes, it has to be the younger ones to bring new ideas to the table, and changes to current practices. Civil Rights weren't all givin in one day 
.
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Joejr14
Grand Bubble Burster
Vinman,
Why do you keep throwing Rich's name out? The fact that you sold him a snake doesnt' really mean much, in the scheme of things.
I do have a question about the snake you sold him, though. Did/does he know that the snake was being fed on chicken necks, turkey and pork? How did he feel about that?
I can tell you Rich doesn't feed his animals chicken necks or other various cooked meats.
Why do you keep throwing Rich's name out? The fact that you sold him a snake doesnt' really mean much, in the scheme of things.
I do have a question about the snake you sold him, though. Did/does he know that the snake was being fed on chicken necks, turkey and pork? How did he feel about that?
I can tell you Rich doesn't feed his animals chicken necks or other various cooked meats.
Vinman
Vinman
eeg
since you cant here my voice you wont be able to know where I'm comming from belave me you I am talking to in a nice way. I would like not to fight. Please just listen to me with an open mined and try to look at things from my point of veiw . your first post was very strong you could have told me a little nicer about my spelling which I have appoliges many times on this board THen you went on to bash me more.That whole post was real harsh how do you expect me to be nice. please read it over and act like that it was writen to you. I think you will see it in a diffrent light rember I started this thread to offer people to try something diffrent.I never said I know all . when people post hard I post hard back I aint no punk I am born raiesed in the Bronx. I have admited that my diet is in the new stages and things could go wrong, time will tell . Im very openminded. I always tell people that you can learn something good of a beniger some times. you do have to admit 22 years of professional keeping snakes and 20 years of breeding I deserive some type of resepct. After all I just dont have the common morphs I have the good stuff. I put alot time and effort in this hobby. I watch this hobby grow from a child to a to collage grad. I watch most of these things we do and use today as they were dicovered. I've bred colminan boas , ball pythons , hounduran , pubian and eastren milks . corns ,Evergladies, yellow and black rats, pines, cal,speckled kings, Lamp.Mex. greers and bearded dragons The reason most of you people dont know me is I just got a computer.I got the computer just to sell my snakes and to get on the herp sites. I used to be a member of a few herp clubs NY herp . LI herp and NOHA I have gone in the field to look for corns and been to the okeetee 3 times I would have gone more but I could not offerd it .My car just died the trany went thats another 900 dolars I could get another car for less I just put a trany in it last year, not agin. There goes this year too. I do conervation work with native herps they call me and ask my oppion on a lot things . I do alot of field work for them In nother words I the one that goes into the swamp gets leaches all over my legs to collect tadpoles and steeps on a king kong size snapping turtle and almost gets his foot bit off. I'm the one thats gets chased by wasps turning stuff looking for snakes. to relocate to the park . I do most of the dirty work and love it but it is hard work. All in all I started this thread with good entions and got raged. thats not fair Vincent A Ritchie
P.S. give credit where credit is do Tue the 22 at 10 am I had surgery and took the time to answer everones post even though Im in pain.
since you cant here my voice you wont be able to know where I'm comming from belave me you I am talking to in a nice way. I would like not to fight. Please just listen to me with an open mined and try to look at things from my point of veiw . your first post was very strong you could have told me a little nicer about my spelling which I have appoliges many times on this board THen you went on to bash me more.That whole post was real harsh how do you expect me to be nice. please read it over and act like that it was writen to you. I think you will see it in a diffrent light rember I started this thread to offer people to try something diffrent.I never said I know all . when people post hard I post hard back I aint no punk I am born raiesed in the Bronx. I have admited that my diet is in the new stages and things could go wrong, time will tell . Im very openminded. I always tell people that you can learn something good of a beniger some times. you do have to admit 22 years of professional keeping snakes and 20 years of breeding I deserive some type of resepct. After all I just dont have the common morphs I have the good stuff. I put alot time and effort in this hobby. I watch this hobby grow from a child to a to collage grad. I watch most of these things we do and use today as they were dicovered. I've bred colminan boas , ball pythons , hounduran , pubian and eastren milks . corns ,Evergladies, yellow and black rats, pines, cal,speckled kings, Lamp.Mex. greers and bearded dragons The reason most of you people dont know me is I just got a computer.I got the computer just to sell my snakes and to get on the herp sites. I used to be a member of a few herp clubs NY herp . LI herp and NOHA I have gone in the field to look for corns and been to the okeetee 3 times I would have gone more but I could not offerd it .My car just died the trany went thats another 900 dolars I could get another car for less I just put a trany in it last year, not agin. There goes this year too. I do conervation work with native herps they call me and ask my oppion on a lot things . I do alot of field work for them In nother words I the one that goes into the swamp gets leaches all over my legs to collect tadpoles and steeps on a king kong size snapping turtle and almost gets his foot bit off. I'm the one thats gets chased by wasps turning stuff looking for snakes. to relocate to the park . I do most of the dirty work and love it but it is hard work. All in all I started this thread with good entions and got raged. thats not fair
Vincent A RitchieP.S. give credit where credit is do Tue the 22 at 10 am I had surgery and took the time to answer everones post even though Im in pain.
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Vinman
Vinman
Yep
He said just make sure it eats mice when I get it and he did not agree with my diet, he did not put me down ,but want to know how it will go in time and told me to use a multi vit.I know rich very well and know him for many years he has helped me when I was novice answered all my questions. any time I needed him he was there for me. Right before he was ready to sell the butters for the first time he sent me photos in the mail and knew that I was not going to pay 300$ for a corn( a lot has change since then.) I talked about them with him a year before he sold any I remember when he wasent sure if the caramel and the butter were related . NOW enuff of your nastyness and leave me alone.
He said just make sure it eats mice when I get it and he did not agree with my diet, he did not put me down ,but want to know how it will go in time and told me to use a multi vit.I know rich very well and know him for many years he has helped me when I was novice answered all my questions. any time I needed him he was there for me. Right before he was ready to sell the butters for the first time he sent me photos in the mail and knew that I was not going to pay 300$ for a corn( a lot has change since then.) I talked about them with him a year before he sold any I remember when he wasent sure if the caramel and the butter were related . NOW enuff of your nastyness and leave me alone.
moreptiles
New member
Richie
Sorry if you already answered this question, but there are now 13 pages to this thread and I have only had time to read 7 or 8 pages of them. It would take a lot less space if we could concentrate on the issues here. My question has to do with starting new hatchlings. Do you feed them something other than pinky mice? If so, could you describe what your successes are?
Thanks
Mark
Sorry if you already answered this question, but there are now 13 pages to this thread and I have only had time to read 7 or 8 pages of them. It would take a lot less space if we could concentrate on the issues here. My question has to do with starting new hatchlings. Do you feed them something other than pinky mice? If so, could you describe what your successes are?
Thanks
Mark
Vinman
Vinman
No this will be the first year I try it on hatchlings you should read thease posts 19,21, 23, 25, There a lot of info there. I ran out of pinkes last week the only snakes that did not any get pinkies were 2 corns fem. 04 that are small cause they were fussy in the first few months they are pure oranigal bloodred stock bred to a pure true okeetee the are an F2 cross that I did myself they very deep in color. So I tryed two turkey slivers that were at the botton of the pot I normaly give the scraps to the bearded dragons or my death head roches But my 2 cuties were hungry they jumped on it like they were eating it for years
E. g. guttata
Her name was Mary-9/17/05
Vin, I have read my posts, your posts, and everyone's posts several times. The overall impression I have gotten is that you're sucking up to connie and meg. Don't know why, but you are. There was nothing harsh in my posts until you called me a smartass teenage punk. at the point you started slinging crap my way, I went right back at you, not like D80 who just stood there and took it. He did show how much growing I have to do by reacting in the way he did compared to the way I reacted, but I feel I was justified to stand up for myself. Now, I am getting tired of this tag game you're playing, if you want to actually talk about this so I don't hurt your feelings by typing it, so you can hear my voice instead, then PM me and maybe we can work something out. Until then, I think you are just getting worked up over nothing but green, red, and blue lights dancing around on a class screen.
Vinman
Vinman
no hard feelings
:cheers: Lets drop it here. If you want to talk me in person anytime I got the unliminted plan so if you want to talk for free you can E mail me your phone # or If you want to call me anytime before 12 am est unless you see me on the computer. That is why my name adress and phone is in my post I think you be suprised when you hear me talk you see me in a diffrent light.
[email protected]. I hate this machine you cant feel anybody out to see where they are comming from words that can be so misunderstood. :shrugs:
:cheers: Lets drop it here. If you want to talk me in person anytime I got the unliminted plan so if you want to talk for free you can E mail me your phone # or If you want to call me anytime before 12 am est unless you see me on the computer. That is why my name adress and phone is in my post I think you be suprised when you hear me talk you see me in a diffrent light.
[email protected]. I hate this machine you cant feel anybody out to see where they are comming from words that can be so misunderstood. :shrugs:
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Vinman
Vinman
To all who like to know I have a 04 corn that would not eat he is a normal het for hypo , lavender, blood , stripe, poss.n het for anry. A & B and amel. The dam thing would not eat I tried everything.I know all the tricks, did not want to try lizards, dont want to get parasites,or a diseases. I cooled him down for 2 months. One month that he is warmed up , still wont eat . Yesterday I tried a peace of meat from a chicken neck, cooked ofcorse. What the hell I had nothing to lose and he ate it ,So now that he is eating I can switch him to pinkies . He is a snake I'm gona sell when he is feeding well on pinkies. I have a male blood from this clutch.
gardenmum
Hopelessly Addicted
Well, must say I hadn't seen this thread before and was quite and "interesting" read.
I decided to do quite a bit of on-line searching for "gerbils being toxic to snakes" (which I found very odd indeed), and found nothing but items on 'feeding gerbils to snakes'. And, in fact, a few saying that gerbils are the natural food of ball pythons in the wild. NOW, being that this info comes off the net, I am not saying this is 100% correct, but if indeed it is the "choice" food of the wild balls, then I would hardly think them to be toxic to snakes. Personally I feed gerbil pinks to my stubborn eaters and they are growing just fine so I guess so far, so good.
I will say that I have fed raw bits of chicken to extreme stubborn feeders with great success. In fact, I raised one up in '03 for quite a few months that way till I could finally convince it to eat mice. The growth rate was no where what it was for pinky fed babies, but the snake lived and is still alive today and doing well. I, personally, wouldn't hesitate to do so again if it means saving the snakes life till it will get on the "preferred" food, but as I said, the growth rate was not that of the pinky fed ones so I could not see myself feeding an only diet of such foods.
I have no intentions on getting into any "flame" wars so will refrain from any major comments on the Hot replies, but I will say that I agree Vinman, that if you want to be taken seriously, you need to present facts and not get heated when opposition is given to your ideas. This is the best and only way to work through new ideas to see if they "hold water" and if there are many leaks found. If many leaks are found, then we have to assume that the 'new trial' failed. It is great to experiment and find if there are other good ways of doing things, but there has to be proof that the new method actually works or is beneficial. So, if you want to pursue your "study" of this feeding method, keep records of what you are doing and present facts to people and if opposition is presented, put out facts holding to your side or check to see if the opposition is right.....and refrain from name calling. Simple.
Good luck with your trials on what you are doing and I truly hope that whatever you do is beneficial for your animals.
I decided to do quite a bit of on-line searching for "gerbils being toxic to snakes" (which I found very odd indeed), and found nothing but items on 'feeding gerbils to snakes'. And, in fact, a few saying that gerbils are the natural food of ball pythons in the wild. NOW, being that this info comes off the net, I am not saying this is 100% correct, but if indeed it is the "choice" food of the wild balls, then I would hardly think them to be toxic to snakes. Personally I feed gerbil pinks to my stubborn eaters and they are growing just fine so I guess so far, so good.
I will say that I have fed raw bits of chicken to extreme stubborn feeders with great success. In fact, I raised one up in '03 for quite a few months that way till I could finally convince it to eat mice. The growth rate was no where what it was for pinky fed babies, but the snake lived and is still alive today and doing well. I, personally, wouldn't hesitate to do so again if it means saving the snakes life till it will get on the "preferred" food, but as I said, the growth rate was not that of the pinky fed ones so I could not see myself feeding an only diet of such foods.
I have no intentions on getting into any "flame" wars so will refrain from any major comments on the Hot replies, but I will say that I agree Vinman, that if you want to be taken seriously, you need to present facts and not get heated when opposition is given to your ideas. This is the best and only way to work through new ideas to see if they "hold water" and if there are many leaks found. If many leaks are found, then we have to assume that the 'new trial' failed. It is great to experiment and find if there are other good ways of doing things, but there has to be proof that the new method actually works or is beneficial. So, if you want to pursue your "study" of this feeding method, keep records of what you are doing and present facts to people and if opposition is presented, put out facts holding to your side or check to see if the opposition is right.....and refrain from name calling. Simple.
Good luck with your trials on what you are doing and I truly hope that whatever you do is beneficial for your animals.
Vinman
Vinman
the jeird found in africa that the ball python eats is not the same species as the gerbil. The gerbil that is in the pet trade is from mongolia in aisa.Like I said before. My vet couldent find any info that gerbils are toxic to snakes. He said that he will look deeper into it to see if he could find that if you feed a diet of only gerbils to a snake for long time, will there be any toixc bulid up.
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