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Bioactive Naturalistic Setup

born2slither

New member
From the moment i held my first snake at around 5 years old, i have been fascinated by snakes and have always wanted to have one of my own. No other pet has interested me as much as these creatures.

Anyway, I have been gathering supplies for my first snake, a corn snake. I became interested in these Bioactive Setups after doing much research on many different housing options, the bioactive naturalistic setup seems to be the best option. From what I understand, these types of setups create a better living space for these animals by providing them with a more natural environment.

Not to sound like a complete noob, i have been reading the threads i could find here to try and give myself as much information on the subject as experienced through those who have attempted this setup. However, many of these posts are brief and old. So I was hoping I could get some updated tips from those who have experience in the subject.

I am currently reading through "the art of keeping snakes" as this was the most recommended book in regards to snake care.

Currently I have invested in the substrate terra firma from here

and have purchased the following items:

Zoo Med ReptiTherm® Under Tank Heater, Medium
Exo Terra Reptile Cave, Medium
Zoo Med Economy Analog Dual Thermometer and Humidity Gauge
Zoo Med Reptile Rock Water Dish, Medium
Jump Start MTPRTC, Digital ETL-Certified Heat Mat Thermostat x2
Bag of Aquarium Gravel (drainage layer)
Eco Earth Compressed Coco Fiber(screen)
Zoo Med ReptiTemp Digital Infrared Thermometer

Plan on getting:
20L Zilla Critter Cage
Ceramic Heat Bulb, fixtures, lamp stand (researching this)
Plants(researching this)
Various Decor
Misc. Tools

My budget for this will probably be in the $500-600 range when completed. I plan on running this setup for at least a month before getting the snake, monitoring things like humidity levels and temperature. Also checking for signs of mold, and going through the regular maintenance routines (misting, turning up substrate, etc)

One of my concerns is, when using an UTH, if excess water were to drain to the bottom of the tank, would this cause the glass to crack? I read something like this. I have read that some use the UTH in order to drive humidity from the drainage layer up into the substrate.

My goal is NOT to eliminate the need for maintenance, but rather to provide something more substantial in terms of living arrangements for my corn than a sterile plastic box.

Obviously I am no expert, so any advice would be appreciated.
 
if you are using a thermostat and have it set properly, the glass will never crack. The heat pad should never get hot enough to crack glass. You are talking about temps of around 85 to 100 degrees. Your tap water on the hot side is hotter than that.

Remember, you will have to clean and maintain this tank. There are things you do daily, weekly, and monthly. With that in mind, keeping it as simplified as possible will make it easier on you and healthier for the snake. I don't understand the need for "Aquarium Gravel." I have never run into anyone using that in a snake setup. You might want to scratch that item.

Most of us place the heat pad on the underside of the tank, hook up a good thermostat, put in our substrate (newspapers, paper towels, shredded Aspen, or Carpet) a water dish, several hiding places, at least 1 on the warm side and 1 on the cool side, and then get the heat regulated so that it's about 85 degrees under the warm side hiding spot. That's really all there is to it.
 
if you are using a thermostat and have it set properly, the glass will never crack. The heat pad should never get hot enough to crack glass. You are talking about temps of around 85 to 100 degrees. Your tap water on the hot side is hotter than that.

Remember, you will have to clean and maintain this tank. There are things you do daily, weekly, and monthly. With that in mind, keeping it as simplified as possible will make it easier on you and healthier for the snake. I don't understand the need for "Aquarium Gravel." I have never run into anyone using that in a snake setup. You might want to scratch that item.

Most of us place the heat pad on the underside of the tank, hook up a good thermostat, put in our substrate (newspapers, paper towels, shredded Aspen, or Carpet) a water dish, several hiding places, at least 1 on the warm side and 1 on the cool side, and then get the heat regulated so that it's about 85 degrees under the warm side hiding spot. That's really all there is to it.

The aquarium gravel was an item listed to be used as a drainage layer. I believe the reason being to keep any excess water separated from the top layer of substrate where the snake lives. There are alternate materials for this purpose, but this was the one I see commonly used in these setups.

I know people generally keep their animals on simpler setups which may be easier to maintain, however it is arguable whether these setups provide a healthier environment. I thought the consensus was that the bioactive setup if properly maintained has no adverse effects on the animals as a simple setup. And are primarily aesthetic decisions. Maybe you could elaborate a bit more on this.
 
..... I know people generally keep their animals on simpler setups which may be easier to maintain, however it is arguable whether these setups provide a healthier environment...........

Arguable?

If that was true everyone on this forum would be doing what you're about to do. Most of the folks on this website have been keeping snakes for many years. many of these people are breeders and sellers. I don't know of anyone who does it the way you are planning to. (I'm sure there are some, and they may chime in now). But if it was "arguably" better, then Everyone would be doing it.

You do understand everything has to be cleaned and maintained? What will happen to the gravel and the bottom of your tank when the snake poops and pees, and all that stuff drains down? Are you seriously going to remove the gravel and all that stuff and clean it and replace it?

Let us know how all that works out for you.
 
Arguable?

If that was true everyone on this forum would be doing what you're about to do. Most of the folks on this website have been keeping snakes for many years. many of these people are breeders and sellers. I don't know of anyone who does it the way you are planning to. (I'm sure there are some, and they may chime in now). But if it was "arguably" better, then Everyone would be doing it.

You do understand everything has to be cleaned and maintained? What will happen to the gravel and the bottom of your tank when the snake poops and pees, and all that stuff drains down? Are you seriously going to remove the gravel and all that stuff and clean it and replace it?

Let us know how all that works out for you.

You say the simple setup would allow for the snake to be healthier. This is arguable as what we are basically discussing is two different types of substrate. It is arueable which is better. From what I understand aspen, newspaper, papertowels, etc. Have no different affect on the snakes health as long as they are properly maintained. Why should a bioactive substrate be any different?

I never stated that this setup would make anything easier for myself. Nor is the effort on my part viewed as a burden.
 
I'm not going to argue with you or anybody else on this forum. It's your setup and your snake. Good luck with it all.

I suggest you read through the forum. There are a lot of discussions on Health, Substrate(s), Corn Snake care, etc......

There are reasons people "Don't Do" what you are talking about doing, and there are a lot more people that keep it simple and easy then there are that do what you are trying. You keep using the word "Arguable." I'd like to meet these people you are arguing with.

But as I said, I wish you luck. I'm just a 58 year old man who has successfully kept snakes since he was 17 years of age. What do I know? Right?
 
I don't want you to feel insulted. Maybe there are too many assumptions being made here.

Firstly when it comes to substrate, there seems to be a agreement amongst keepers that aspen, newspaper, paper towels, maybe some others but mainly these 3 are widely used and neither of these have any distinct advantage over the other. If I am mistaken about this please tell me. You say one substrate will be healthier for the snake than another in the first post but give no clear reasons other than I"'m 52 and have been keeping snakes this way for 17 years". Sure, you have experience in the simple setup, however you also said you have not tried to use a bio active substrate but yet denounce this method as less healthy for the snake. Why is it less healthy?

I opened this thread to get some insight and discusion to basic snake care concepts and how they may apply to bioactive naturalistic setups. You say there are "reasons" why people dont do these types of setups, but don't give any. Maybe share some of that 17 years of experience by actually answering a question comprehensively rather than feeling like your herp lifestyle choice was threatened.

I have been doing a lot of research on the topic and it seems to me the reason everyone is not doing it comes down to 3 things. Time, money, and effort. Since these are all things which IMO are the owners ultimate responsibility, it has no relevance to the discussion.
 
I'm going to assume you're planning to add springtails, isopods, and other various clean-up-crew invertebrates to your shopping list. A lot of people won't even consider a bioactive viv just because they don't want bugs in their house, however harmless they might be.

Personally I like living in my sterile house rather than crouching in dirt huts, but that's just me. ;)
 
I'm going to assume you're planning to add springtails, isopods, and other various clean-up-crew invertebrates to your shopping list. A lot of people won't even consider a bioactive viv just because they don't want bugs in their house, however harmless they might be.

The kit I purchased had included cultures but i t was cold here when they were shipped and I'm hoping the culture will rebound. But yes, I.have those items but didn't list them individually
 
Born2slither,
Ignore the naysayer.

I don't have time right now to get into details, or follow you links (later today, I hope). This is being done with success with snakes. It is currently most popular with the frog keepers. Dendroboard forum is an excellent resource if you haven't yet run across it.

My favourite source is New England Herpetoculture for supplies. They are also an excellent source of information.

...'till later,
Distaff
 
Don't mind Karl, he's just our local crotchety old-school keeper. :) He means well, I promise. When you've been doing something a certain way for a long time with good results and the approval of your peers, it can be off-putting to see a newbie come in and say they're going to do things differently and suggests that way is better without having any actual experience.

My goal is NOT to eliminate the need for maintenance, but rather to provide something more substantial in terms of living arrangements for my corn than a sterile plastic box.

This reads as: "Bioactive vivs are superior to rack systems." Follow that up with "I'm not an expert" and of course you're gonna be questioned by the old-timers. Heck, I'm a newbie around here, and even I found it a tiny bit off-putting.

BUT. But. I think a little arrogance and elitism isn't always inherently bad. The idea of "I can do it better!" can lead to new innovations.

Bioactive vivs are awesome, and something I've considered for a more display-friendly species, but they're way too much effort and money for what the snake might get out of it for me to consider moving my corns to bioactive setups.
 
They are more money. I worked out the cost, and would need an extra $100 just for the gravel and ABG type mix to the proper depths for my 36"X18" floor (and, that's before isopods, springtails, and leaf litter).

Fortunately, you don't neccessairly (spell?) need to go all out right away. I've been collecting plants (potos and english ivy) that should work, and they are in pots in foam planters. These are held up on the glass with strong magnets. The corn hasn't managed to kill them yet.

I tried a pyrex tray with a bio active mix earlier in a ten gallon, and learned that kingsnakes just plow thru moss tossing it about, tradscententia is lovely but too brittle, and the RHP dries up everything in such a small enclosure. I would not attempt bio-active again in a small heated tank.

Furthermore, I have not figured out how one would set up full bio-active substrate with a UTH. (LLL Reptile has a Youtube on this, but despite what is done and claimed on that video, I don't think it will heat properly for the snake.)

Bio-active is a work in progress.
 
Was wondering how you liked the book the art of keeping snakes ? I was thinking of getting it . Does it explain how to set up the viv well ? Do you think it's worth reeding?
 
Welcome born2slither! :wavey: I hope you'll stick around and share your experiences with bioactive and corn snakes. I'm always learning and the more info the better.

Sounds like you are doing your homework, for sure!

Btw, the other day I finally bought a Zilla critter cage 20L for my young corn snake. I had a heartbreaking escape last September. I bought a new lid and have had it secured with Velcro wrap straps for Cleo, but the critter cage is definitely a better choice for our little escape artists. Well done!
 
I own this book and like it. There is so little information out there specific to snakes in this area - dart frogs and gekos are a bit different (and easier on the plants).

I also think the hobby has advanced a bit since publication. For a basic primer on set-up, I would first go to New England Herpetoculture's site and the page, viv set-up 101 (or some-such. I have no affiliation with these people, just a customer.) Josh's Frogs also has good info.
 
I did a bioactive substrate in a 40 gallon breeder and found it just as much if not more work. You still have to clean out the feces, and you have stir up the soil to keep it loose. Also there are the bugs, you have to have some kind of insect life to keep the soil clean, like isopods. I also had plants, half of which died on me even with the proper lighting.
I found it a big pain in the back side and went back to shredded aspen and plastic plants.I dont think my snake cares.
 
Obviously I am no expert, so any advice would be appreciated.

And that's why people go to forums. To gain some insight and viewpoints through friendly discussion :) I did not get the impression that you were arguing against the counterpoints but just reiterating some info that seem to of been passed over. :)

I'll give you my actual experience with bio-active setups.
I love the looks of them ! I would have all my displays as bio-active. When I get a chance I am going to do a 55g setup for amphibians.
I've seen so many pet stores start with these fantastic bio-active natural displays only to tear them down later due to too many losses and to much maintenance. I did them in my pet stores years ago. People loved bringing their kids in because they likened it to going to the zoo.
Would I do it for corn snakes ? No. You didn't mention what age snake you were getting ? For me it comes down to volume ;) as in how much fecal matter will the inhabitants will produce before it overwhelms the ecosystem with bacteria. It is what you don't see that is going to be the problem and that's bad bacteria. No matter how much spot cleaning you do you will never be able to remove all the bad bacteria. The system might handle a hatchling corn snake for a while but an adult defecating in it will overwhelm the bio system quickly. Garter snakes would be a more appropriate inhabitant IMO.
Eventually almost all bio-active setups need to be teared down and cleaned. The smaller the inhabitant and larger the terrarium is then the longer it will be before needing a thorough cleaning.
Bio-active natural setups are too wet for corn snakes. To much humidity from keeping the plants alive will breed bad bacteria quickly. It's a rarity that corn snakes develop water blisters (bacterial infection under the skin) but in a moist environment it can happen.
Lighting requirements for plants would be more appropriate for diurnal snakes also.
Corn snakes popularity is mainly due to there passiveness and are hand able. If you plan on taking a hatchling in and out of the natural setup the snake might have different ideas on what his role is in the relationship is LOL. He might think he is in the wild and find hides that you'll never get him out of and when you do he might take a strike or two at you.
Collectors, keepers and breeders like to keep sterile habitats because our main concern is the health of the animal.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 
And that's why people go to forums. To gain some insight and viewpoints through friendly discussion :) I did not get the impression that you were arguing against the counterpoints but just reiterating some info that seem to of been passed over. :)

I'll give you my actual experience with bio-active setups.
I love the looks of them ! I would have all my displays as bio-active. When I get a chance I am going to do a 55g setup for amphibians.
I've seen so many pet stores start with these fantastic bio-active natural displays only to tear them down later due to too many losses and to much maintenance. I did them in my pet stores years ago. People loved bringing their kids in because they likened it to going to the zoo.
Would I do it for corn snakes ? No. You didn't mention what age snake you were getting ? For me it comes down to volume ;) as in how much fecal matter will the inhabitants will produce before it overwhelms the ecosystem with bacteria. It is what you don't see that is going to be the problem and that's bad bacteria. No matter how much spot cleaning you do you will never be able to remove all the bad bacteria. The system might handle a hatchling corn snake for a while but an adult defecating in it will overwhelm the bio system quickly. Garter snakes would be a more appropriate inhabitant IMO.
Eventually almost all bio-active setups need to be teared down and cleaned. The smaller the inhabitant and larger the terrarium is then the longer it will be before needing a thorough cleaning.
Bio-active natural setups are too wet for corn snakes. To much humidity from keeping the plants alive will breed bad bacteria quickly. It's a rarity that corn snakes develop water blisters (bacterial infection under the skin) but in a moist environment it can happen.
Lighting requirements for plants would be more appropriate for diurnal snakes also.
Corn snakes popularity is mainly due to there passiveness and are hand able. If you plan on taking a hatchling in and out of the natural setup the snake might have different ideas on what his role is in the relationship is LOL. He might think he is in the wild and find hides that you'll never get him out of and when you do he might take a strike or two at you.
Collectors, keepers and breeders like to keep sterile habitats because our main concern is the health of the animal.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Thank you for your informative response. You are correct, some people are just overly confrontational for no reason. The point of discussion and debate is for people to educate one another to strengthen their knowledge of the subject in question. I am merely asking for advice and asking questions and hoping that experienced keepers out there can share some of their personal experiences in this hobby.

The age of the snake will most likely be less than a year or maybe less than 6months. Ive already looked at a few.

Anyway, my plan on cleaning is to do the same as if it were aspen, which is to remove all fecal matter possible. There is no difference in cleaning here. Nothing is left behind. According to some, the constant rotation of the bioactive substrate (top layer) would be sufficient to prevent major development of bacteria. Obviously this remains to be seen in practice, but the logic is sound.

From what i read the corn snake can live in many humidity conditions but prefers a range of about 30-40%. Which will be closely monitored. I am researching plants which require lower humidity to survive so that the humidity can remain at its most optimal level. I have read that use of an UTH with a ceramic heat emitter causes humidity to reside mainly within the substrate, as the CHE (i believe its called) drys the very top layer of substrate. Someone has mentioned that their corn burrows for humidity during shedding in a Bioactive setup.

ALSO: I forgot to mention that i will most likely be using a finnex LED plant light during the day for about 6hrs.

I have also heard of people handling their snakes on a daily basis (48hrs after feeding though) and they seem to be doing fine. A hatchling, and any captive breed corn has never experienced a wild environment at any point in their lives. These animals will adapt to whatever situation they are put in to survive. That last part doesn't make sense, because the snake wouldn't have any idea what a wild environment is compared to a sterile lab environment as they were never in the wild to begin with.
 
Also worth mentioning:

I will also have a quarantine enclosure on hand for emergencies as a secondary setup and backup which will be more "lab" like.
 
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