Breeding mice

[geiniandkathy]

Ok I have experience breeding mice for pets and I have to say I am kinda shocked hearing people are keeping the males with the females and females with other females when they have a litter. In my experience (this is only my experience and is here to share) it is better to keep not bred females together in a colony. Take 1 or 2 females and put them with the male for 10 days then put each in a maternity cage until pups are culled or grown. Then you can put the females back in the coloy on cleaning day. Always cull out females that fight or harm babies. This keeps your line mellow and laid back, the best for pretty much anything. This is how I have my feeders line set up so far. Of course I have to get a male. Will be getting him next monday or tuesday.

My plan is to let each female have 3 litters before culling for age. Each litter will have one take each day to build stock in the freezer. Leaving two with the females with the biggest litters to be future breeders. Now I know this sounds like a lot of mice for ONE corn snake but I also have 4 cats on a raw diet so they will be eating mice too :devil01:

I just need advice on how to kill the mice before freezing. I was told get a co2 machine OR just put em in the freezer live, but that seems cruel to me???

Kathy

 

[RickersRodents]

Depends on the age of mouse. For mice up to peach fuzzies you can put them in the freezer they go rather fast and if they are hopper size and up you can hold them by the base of the tail and put a small like the size of a nail on the neck holding them down and give a sharp tug on the tail upwards. This is cervical dislocation (broken neck) they go instant this way. CO2 is a good way of euthanizing but can be pricey and tedious to set up for a small operation.

 

[RickersRodents]

After reading your post again, you speak of keeping the females apart while they are brooding. If you do it this way you might run into problems putting them back together later on. Female mice can be very brutal to each other when introduced/re-introduced back to a colony.

You can keep them all together all the time as long as there isn’t a problem with killing babies. You sometimes see this when the breeding colony is still young but there normally isn’t a problem as long as there is only one male in the bunch. The female mice work better together, they will help each other take care of the kiddies

If you have any problems or questions feel free to ask me.

 

[claireree]

In my experience I keep the male and females together and when the babies are big enough they get weaned off, the parents all seem to rally round and look after the babies. My males in the past make good parents looking after the babies too.

 

[geiniandkathy]

Depends on the age of mouse. For mice up to peach fuzzies you can put them in the freezer they go rather fast and if they are hopper size and up you can hold them by the base of the tail and put a small like the size of a nail on the neck holding them down and give a sharp tug on the tail upwards. This is cervical dislocation (broken neck) they go instant this way. CO2 is a good way of euthanizing but can be pricey and tedious to set up for a small operation.

I had used this technique with rabbits, I do not know why it did not occur to me to use it with mice. Thank you! I had also just found plans for a dry ice setup using reasonably small pieces of dry ice to achieve the "gassed" method. If the above does not work the dry ice method I found is actually not that expensive looking. If I try it and it works I'll share my modified design!

Kathy:idea:

 

[geiniandkathy]

In my experience I keep the male and females together and when the babies are big enough they get weaned off, the parents all seem to rally round and look after the babies. My males in the past make good parents looking after the babies too.

In the past I have only had males that ate the babies when they were born if they were left in, never found one that wouldn't. I also always had very docile females. Never had problems putting them back if I did it on a cage cleaning day with a touch of vanilla on all noses. Since I was breeding 4 to 6 females at a time and back then I was tracing lines keeping the females apart to know which babies belonged to whom was a must. Otherwise they could not be pedigreed. They were for pets after all I want to regulate how often they breed, as back to back litters are not good especially if I am breeding for large litters and healthy moms. That is another reason for breeding the way I said. Pet and Show mouse breeders have been doing it for a long time :grin01:

What age should I get the male? I do not want to get too young. That would set me back more. my females range in age from about 3 months to almost 6. The older two I will probably only let have 1 litter due to age.

Kathy

 

[Em Wright]

In my experience I keep the male and females together and when the babies are big enough they get weaned off, the parents all seem to rally round and look after the babies. My males in the past make good parents looking after the babies too.

So I'm not the only one with this opinion. :nyah:

I only have 1.1 now... The other female I had was killing babies (hers and the other female's) so she was culled. The male and female I have together now enjoy each other's company quite a bit. They're like a cute, furry little family.

EDIT:

My male doesn't harm the babies. He was very good in helping the female and the babies weren't even his. The only problems I had with baby killing were from the other female. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that your way isn't the only way. :shrugs: And my mice are perfectly healthy, despite being together.

If you're going to kill the babies off and feed them to your cats/snakes then having a pedigree on them isn't going to mean diddly... now is it?

 

[CrousesCorns]

Are these white lab mice? I have 6 colonies of Fancy Mice and have never had these problems you all talk about. I always leave the females and males together. The only thing I have to happen to the babies is stealing or trading. All of my females share the nursing role whether it's theirs or not. My males help sometimes, but they are usually on the search for females in heat.
Culling after 3 litters? That's way to early in my book. It would just be reaching it's prime output in babies.
As for numbers I try to keep a 1:6 or 1:8 ratio depending on tank size. As for taking mice out and coming and going of mice.....that's a NO NO here. They fight/kill each other. I have also posted before that I have introduced males and the results were it's scrotum was eaten off.
Killing them the best and most humane....Well that is whatever you like or feel comfortable with. Just like RickersRodents said...small mice in freezer and larger ones gas or break the necks. I personally have used all of the above depending on size.
If you are going to raise mice you need to be prepared for the smell, cleaning nasty tanks, killing them, and some bad mice behavior sometimes. Good luck with your mice!!

 

[Em Wright]

CrousesCorns... From the sounds of it the OP breeds PET mice aka Fancy mice. I'm not sure what the difference is really, mice are mice to me. But I do agree with you whole-heartedly!

 

[jimmythetiger]

As far as c02 goes, you don't have to buy an expensive tank. You can make it with vinegar and baking soda! It's way cheaper and easy to do!

 

[Em Wright]

Or you can do this:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51834

It's what I plan to do eventually. Shouldn't be too difficult or expensive.

 

[RickersRodents]

Everyone like pictures so I figured I’d snap you one. Here is one breeding tub with older babies in it.

Bonus: Can anyone spot the African soft furred rats in there? Here is a hint, there are 4 of them in total and none of them are dark colored :laugh01:

 

[CrousesCorns]

looks to be the cream colored or peach ones

 

[geiniandkathy]

My male doesn't harm the babies. He was very good in helping the female and the babies weren't even his. The only problems I had with baby killing were from the other female. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that your way isn't the only way. :shrugs: And my mice are perfectly healthy, despite being together.

If you're going to kill the babies off and feed them to your cats/snakes then having a pedigree on them isn't going to mean diddly... now is it?

FYI you are coming across as very rude ok? Not saying you are trying to be just that you are. If you can't play nice please ignore my posts.

I am happy for every and any one who has lovely male mice that are ever so sweet to their babies. I NEVER said my way was the only way just that I had not heard of leaving the males in before and then (after saying it was my oppinion posted to SHARE) explained how I have done things.

For my breeding program (where some are going to remain living) the only way to trace who breeds best to continue the line is to what??? Pedigree them! So in my case a pedigree DOES mean A LOT of DIDDLY.

Thank you for your attempt to make me sound stupid. In my eyes, you failed. There is no "my way or the highway" on anything. I came to share my experience not ask to be (poorly attempted) made a fool of.

Hugs to your sweetie male mouse. Anyone with one of these mellow males live in Missouri? No? Ok then!

Kathy

 

[geiniandkathy]

Are these white lab mice? I have 6 colonies of Fancy Mice and have never had these problems you all talk about. I always leave the females and males together. The only thing I have to happen to the babies is stealing or trading. All of my females share the nursing role whether it's theirs or not. My males help sometimes, but they are usually on the search for females in heat.
Culling after 3 litters? That's way to early in my book. It would just be reaching it's prime output in babies.
As for numbers I try to keep a 1:6 or 1:8 ratio depending on tank size. As for taking mice out and coming and going of mice.....that's a NO NO here. They fight/kill each other. I have also posted before that I have introduced males and the results were it's scrotum was eaten off.
Killing them the best and most humane....Well that is whatever you like or feel comfortable with. Just like RickersRodents said...small mice in freezer and larger ones gas or break the necks. I personally have used all of the above depending on size.
If you are going to raise mice you need to be prepared for the smell, cleaning nasty tanks, killing them, and some bad mice behavior sometimes. Good luck with your mice!!

They are fancy mice. From pet shops the only place I can get any without being told what a retard I am for wanting those "filthy" things. In my experience the males are WAY more agressive than the females and have not ever had problems with females killing babies unless a male was in the tank. I only had one fight with other females and she was born without eyes. (heavily inbred line from bad breeder)

I raised pet mice for 4 years and pet gerbils for 16 years. I also own ferrets. belive me I KNOW about smell and cleaning.

I'm begining to wonder why this site was raved as the best place to talk snakes and feeders? At least in the feeders area I have been hacked down for sharing the way I did things and my oppinions on breeding strategy as though I came in and said do it my way or die! Or something.

Really making me think about leaving. I have never been talked down to so badly. May be my first snake but that does not make me an idiot.

Kathy

 

[jimmythetiger]

I think you need to calm down. I'm not trying to be mean, but you asked for help and people are giving you opinions. You don't have to follow them even if they believe that their way is best. Just take what you can from the info to learn.

 

[geiniandkathy]

thanks but they do not need to act like I am being the one all like its my way or the high way. I'm glad someone else found males that are mellow. To date my sources have given me agressive males. I don't need this. I am not planning to just throw mice in a cage and harvest the babies. I have a program lined out like I was trying to discuss. I have no problem being open minded, I do have a problem with being told not to act a way I wasn't acting.

Kathy

 

[Em Wright]

Okay Kathy, yes I was being a little rude and I apologize. It just sounded a little silly to me... I don't understand why you would need to pedigree mice... I got my mice from a petstore and they did not come with a pedigree. :shrugs: If you're going to feed them to snakes then it's kind of pointless, IMO.

Perhaps you need to set aside mice that are JUST for feeders. If you have excess sell them to people locally as feeders or something. Then have the fancy mice and keep them all seperate. Just a thought.

And... a funny thing about my rats that I would like to share with you:

I got my first rat from a breeder who breeds for the purpose of feeding snakes. I was purchasing F/T mice from him at a show and decided that I needed a pet rat. The friend I was with didn't help she kind of talked me into it. Anyway, we brought her home and I was worried she would be lonely so we purchased another female rat to be her living companion. Our second rat, who was purchased from a petstore, died a month later of unknown causes. However the rat we got from somebody who was breeding by "throwing mice in a cage and harvesting the babies" turned out to be healthier and outlive the other rat who very well may have come with a pedigree.

Just something for you to think about. I'm not knocking pedigrees... but I am saying that you shouldn't (this is what it appears to be from my view) act like the way we do things is so bad, either.

Oh and here's a picture of our male mouse.

 

[medusacoils]

Interesting.....

My wife and I, have been breeding rodents for going on 15 years now. We raise quite a variety of them, too. One thing I have learned, is that people have differing opinions and methods for breeding and raising them. What will work for one, may not for another and so on.

I don't nor do I do see the need to separate males from females and females from one another. In the wild, these animals would den up and all the females would dump their litters in one and den and take turns mothering them. The males would run around and do whatever it is males do. Sometimes, competitive males would come in and slaughter non related babies, in an attempt to bring the females, back into heat.

This is a practice that is repeated and has been successfully done throughout our rodentry. I am not questioning any one else's methods, but I think you need to understand that your way, isn't the only way. I am sure that some will find fault in the way I do things. I have been doing this, with my wife long enough, that we are confident in our methods. I find it odd that people actually find a need to separate adults, but that is just me.

We raise colonies of feeders at a 1.4 and 1.5 ration, successfully. I do not remove any of the adults, unless I am having an issue with one, then that one usually gets fed off. I have an ample supply of feeder stock. We also pedigree some of our rodents for show. That is very simple to do, because we keep our show stock, separate from the feeder colonies. On occasion, some of the show stock, find their themselves on the menu. But, that depends on what we are trying to accomplish. That's what it is all going to boil down to.

As I mentioned previously, we raise all kinds of rodents. My wife shows Gerbils and Mice. She also raises, for pet adoption and sometimes feeders, (depends on the species), Rats, Dwarf Hamsters, Pygmy Mice, Robovski Hamsters, Spiny Mice, Soft Furred Rats and Winter White Hamsters.

Thank you for reading and good luck with your project.

Wayne

PS Jay at PJCReptiles has a whole sticky thread on how to build a CO2 chamber. You may want to check out his forum to see what that's about. I don't know for sure, but I think you can't use it on newborns. Something about them not being susceptible to hypoxia. Not sure if it's true, but you may want to check it out.

Here is the link;

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51834

 

[MedusaCorns]

male mice DO help mom while she eats or rests away from the nest. He keeps the pups warm. Some males as well as some females are cannibals from birth. Who knows why. An extra craving for meat???? These most likely are fed off. 98% of my boys are happy, very good daddy's.

Whichever works for the breeder.. It's so much fun to see results and what I like is it's just another genetic project.