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suecornish

New member
I just want to relate what happened to my husband and I this past weekend at the Raleigh NC Reptile Show.

We have been keeping snakes since December 2006 and up to last weekend I have been the one buying the snakes. My husband, like some men, hear free or cheap or deal and jump on it. He was standing next to a woman who bought a lizard and cage from this dealer. The dealer offered her an adult female bloodred-looking cornsnake for $10. The woman was interested but my husband managed to get the dealer to sell him the snake for $10.

She, Saffron, is 3' plus and weights 358 grams. She was crammed into a small gladware contain where she could not even move if she wanted to. She laid in the same spot in her new home, 35 gallon herpiterium, for over 24 hours. Needless to say, she went to the vet yesterday.

By the time of her appointment the ticks were showing, she is infested with them. She has mouth rot. She has a respiratory infection. She is on meds right now but still has only a 50-50 chance of surviving.

The bargain $10 snake now costs $74 and price still rising. The $50 snake I got from Kathy Love at the show still just costs $50.

If you remember nothing else, remember this: Bargains ARE NOT bargains; Buy from a well-established reputable breeder; Examine before paying; Know what you are looking for.

Saffron is now a part of my snake colony and currently in isolation. I will do whatever I can and pay whatever necessary to get her healthy. Although not pleased with the purchase we have become responsible for a living creature that we are ethically obligated to care for as best we can.

Please remember this when you go to shows. This was my second reptile show and I went specifically to meet Kathy Love and pick up Da. As with everything commercial - there are good and bad. Learn to recognize the bad and stay away from them; find the good and promote them. Kudos to Kathy Love.
 
Wow! Sorry to hear about Saffron. I hope she makes a full recovery. Thanks for sharing your experience. It's a good reminder for us all.
 
suecornish said:
If you remember nothing else, remember this: Bargains ARE NOT bargains; Buy from a well-established reputable breeder; Examine before paying; Know what you are looking for.
Click to expand...

Too true...and not a lesson just for newbies either!
 
Great post! I have only bought one snake from a breeder. that is the only snake I had that didn't have health complications that required vet treatment. You get exactly what you pay for when it comes to animals.

Needless to say, no more "rescue" snakes for me for a while.
 
Like I said this was the first snake that my husband bought and all he heard was $10 and saw an adult corn snake.

The other problem I saw at the show was a dealer selling hatchling giant green iguanas. There was only one UTH and they all were piled on it, about 50 it looked like. There was already a dead one that could be seen and logic suggests that there were more dead under that pile. One heat lamp was being set up at 10:30 AM so those babies were in that cold building with only one UTH all night long. Right now I wish I called Animal Control and pressed Animal Cruelity charges against that dealer. In the future, I plan on getting in touch of the ASPCA in the city of the show I plan on attending with a weekend contact number and if I see a similar condition I will report it. The only way we can clean up these practices is to report it. Weither it's dogs, cats, birds, snakes, lizards, they are all living creatures and deserve to be treated with kindness.
 
suecornish said:
In the future, I plan on getting in touch of the ASPCA in the city of the show I plan on attending with a weekend contact number and if I see a similar condition I will report it. The only way we can clean up these practices is to report it.
Click to expand...

That's a BAD idea...Unless you WANT the show to be closed down. Depending upon the ASPCA, they can be run by PETA (do some research on the negative aspects of PETA) or they can have an anti-exotics policy. Getting places like the ASPCA or PETA involved is a good way to bring negative attention toward this hobby and push for restrictions and bans.

Your best bet is to complain to the show promoter...Make a post on the BOI about the deplorable care at the show by a particular company, etc.
 
This is a copy of the e-mail I just sent to the show's promoter. Maybe just the threat will help:

"Sirs:

I feel the need to relate to you two items of concern seen during my visit to the Raleigh NC Reptile Show on May 3, 2008. My husband and I attended this show as VIPs. I do know that it is a "buyer's beware" setting but some conditions were deplorable and if we expect to have professionalism in the reptile industry I feel these conditions need to be addressed by all of us. Fellow dealers and venders, breeders, reptile owners and sponsors.

First: health of a reptile offered for sale - My husband purchased a female corn snake for a bargain price of $10. Initially this snake was offered to a woman who purchased a lizard and cage from the dealer. The woman was not interested but when my husband showed interest the dealer started to back down on the price as he had other snakes the same size for sale from $65 to $95. My husband got the dealer to sell him the snake for the price offered to the woman. Please understand, this was the first snake my husband has ever bought as I have been the one examining and buying snakes. Tuesday, May 6th, I took the snake to the vet - she, a female adult bloodred corn snake, is infested with ticks, has mouth rot and respiratory infection. Currently I am trying to nurse her back to health but the vet has given her a 50-50 chance of survival. Now, I feel very comfortable in saying that this dealer knew the condition of this snake and that is why he wanted to get rid of it for a price that would be 'jumped' on and I am also comfortable in saying that I doubt his other snakes were in any better condition that this female was in. I thought that there was a vet on duty at the show to check that the animals were in an acceptable condition to be sold.

Second: conditions the animals endured during the show - Around 10:30 am we were in the vicinity of a dealer that had giant green iguanas for sale. He had a large cage with, guessing, 50+ hatchling giant green iguanas that had only one UTH. I am guessing this because all the hatchlings were in one pile with the exception of a single dead one near the pile. This dealer, 2+ hours after the doors opened to VIPs, was just setting up heat lamps which means these hatchlings spent the entire night piled on one another over just one UTH. Logic suggests that there were more dead hatchlings on the bottom of the pile. A person with a name tag (I don't remember her name) indicating she was part of the sponsor's crew was standing next to the cage and I pointed out the dead hatchling and the too-cold condition the hatchlings were exposed to. She took no action with the dealer. IF I had my wits about me at the time I should have called the ASPCA and pressed animal cruelty charges against this dealer for the deplorable conditions he subjected these hatchlings to. In the future I will.

This is the second reptile show I have been to and from now on I plan on attending more in the Charlotte NC area. I will have weekend contact phone numbers for ASPCA so I can press charges against any dealer who blatantly disregards normal and routine care of the animals they are offering for sale. Yes, I will report animal cruelty as it seems sponsors of reptile shows no concern to do so."

So, hopefully. We, you-me-anyone who owned and/or breeds reptiles, need to start to be proactive in this. When we turn away or even buy we encourage these deplorable conditions. If I was presented with Saffron I would not have bought her as I would have checked her out first before handing over my money. Now that I have her, I am responsible for her. We need to try to change the negative attitude towards our passion.
 
blckkat said:
That's a BAD idea...Unless you WANT the show to be closed down. Depending upon the ASPCA, they can be run by PETA (do some research on the negative aspects of PETA) or they can have an anti-exotics policy. Getting places like the ASPCA or PETA involved is a good way to bring negative attention toward this hobby and push for restrictions and bans.

Your best bet is to complain to the show promoter...Make a post on the BOI about the deplorable care at the show by a particular company, etc.
Click to expand...

We already have negative attention just by what these dealers and venders are allowed to do. Let's just say I have heard that reptile keepers run neck and neck with hard-core bikers and just below used-car dealers when it comes to reputation.
 
suecornish said:
We already have negative attention just by what these dealers and venders are allowed to do. Let's just say I have heard that reptile keepers run neck and neck with hard-core bikers and just below used-car dealers when it comes to reputation.
Click to expand...

You're not understanding. By creating ADDITIONAL negative attention, you are adding fuel to the (restriction and banning) fire. Is that what you'd like?

There's already an all out ban of pythons and boas trying to be passed across the country (which the humane society is trying to push through). I read yesterday that in one of the Carolinas (can't remember which one) they're trying to put state wide restrictions on certain species of reptiles.

Contacting organizations that are anti-exotic is not the way to go. :eek1:
 
blckkat said:
I read yesterday that in one of the Carolinas (can't remember which one) they're trying to put state wide restrictions on certain species of reptiles.
Click to expand...

That would probably be NC as there have been many recent attempts at restricting the owning of exotics. SC has a few restrictions on gators and some turtles but most lizards and snakes are okay to own........so far.:eek:
 
suecornish said:
This is a copy of the e-mail I just sent to the show's promoter. Maybe just the threat will help:
Click to expand...

Did you happen to get the vendor's name(s) where you bought the snake or the place you saw the iguanas? That will be helpful to the show promoter as well as future customers. Maybe you should look into putting
something on the BOI?​



blckkat said:
Contacting organizations that are anti-exotic is not the way to go. :eek1:
Click to expand...

I do have to agree with this quote...bringing other organizations in to help the cause may be a good thing in the short run but in the long run it could be very bad for us. In my opinion, I think if we can deal with it on a local level (show promoter, vendor, vet, etc.) we will be better off then getting the wrong attention from the wrong groups.

Good luck with you letter and it'll be interesting to see what happens. Keep us updated.




</IMG>
 
And the ban that is being discussed is on Burmess (not spelt right), Reticulated and Anacondas which Florida already has a law requiring all owners of said snakes to have them microchipped.

Yes, there is a fire out there but throwing "hysterical" fuel (blanket statements that are partially true) is self-defeating. South Carolina, if I remember correct, requires all owners of Burmess, Reticulated and Anacondas to have them licensed and/or registered as of July 31, 2006. No ban on owning them, just register them.

These are dangerous animals and if not respected will EAT you. Any of these giant snakes can and will eat a human if the conditions are right. They have no problem eating small dogs and humans the size of small dogs, ex. children.
 
MohrSnakes said:
Did you happen to get the vendor's name(s) where you bought the snake or the place you saw the iguanas? That will be helpful to the show promoter as well as future customers. Maybe you should look into putting
something on the BOI?​





I do have to agree with this quote...bringing other organizations in to help the cause may be a good thing in the short run but in the long run it could be very bad for us. In my opinion, I think if we can deal with it on a local level (show promoter, vendor, vet, etc.) we will be better off then getting the wrong attention from the wrong groups.

Good luck with you letter and it'll be interesting to see what happens. Keep us updated.




</IMG>
Click to expand...


I still have a copy of the vender layout at home. The vender with the snake was located right behind Kathy Love and the iguana vender was two aisles over. I can figure out who by looking at the vender layout. I want this to stay at local lever and, believe me, I don't want "governmental" oversight (ASPCA) but some people see to have blinders on and don't want to do anything. Even me at the show, I should have voiced my displease to the iguana vender but I didn't. NO MORE. I am going proactive on this matter; even if I am the only one in my area that is. Good breeders such as yourself and Kathy Love are painted with the same brush as those two vendors and that is not right.
 
:-offtopic


These are dangerous animals and if not respected will EAT you. Any of these giant snakes can and will eat a human if the conditions are right. They have no problem eating small dogs and humans the size of small dogs, ex. children.
Click to expand...

I'm all for showing these animals respect, definately. In a tiny minority of cases where you have a massive snake (even for the larger species) and tiny humans looking after them, then there is minute chance you could be eaten (more likely consticted and then left).

BUT the above quote is just alarmist IMO, these animals don't go out of their way to chow down on humans.

Tom
 
No, they don't - no animal goes out of their way to eat a human. But believe it or not, we as humans are part of the food chain. If the opportunity presents itself it can happen. And as a general observation I have notice that parents with small children near the water are not overly protective of their children like they should be. Even in cases where alligators are caught to be removed from human vacinity, such as cases in Miami, youngests are right near the action with parent either not there or not within arm's reach.

Even thought the proposel stated pythons, it is not directed at Royal pythons who are not big enough to do any damage except to one's ego if biten. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion, sensationalized for awe factor and going out of control.
 
suecornish said:
South Carolina, if I remember correct, requires all owners of Burmess, Reticulated and Anacondas to have them licensed and/or registered as of July 31, 2006. No ban on owning them, just register them.
Click to expand...

I believe you are incorrect on this one. I have heard of no such law here in SC and no intentions of having one either. There are some local city and county laws that may stipulate restrictions but not state laws. You might be thinking Florida as there are new laws on the books concerning these animals that went into effect this last Jan if I am not mistaken.
 
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