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- Thread starter suecornish
- Start date
suecornish
New member
She is still very still and quiet. She'll move to a new spot and stay there for hours without moving and then move to another spot and stay for a time. I have a large piece of granite in there so she can catch her shed on it when ready but right now she'll lay her head on top of it and stare out the window.
So far I haven't notice any ticks falling off so I have to call the vet to see if I can give her a warm bath to help with that; I can seen them under the scales but the ticks are not sticking out like they were Tuesday. She gets another dose of the Bactyl tonight and gets that every other day for the next twenty days. Kathy Love seems to think that she was either kept in a tank with wild caught snakes or next to them and the husbandry care was not very good. She said the morp is to unusual for Saffron to be a wild snake.
I did see something dark moving near her eye last night so I don't know if it was a mite or tick. If I soak her and there are mites, they'll fall off but I don't know if she is physically up to having a soak.
Only time will tell if she makes it.
Jeff, I'll have to look up that reg on the big snakes being registered.
TripleMoonsExotic
I <3 Stripes!
Please link where it says it's ONLY large boids. EVERYTHING I have read states that it's been a blanket ALL pythons and boas (heck, the documents say it).
suecornish
New member
You are right, the documents are worded as a blanket statement.
Jeff, you may be right. That law was to be an amendment to Title 47 (Animals, Livestock & Poultry - 47-2-10) but it was sent to the Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources on January 10, 2006. I have not been able to locate what happened to it after that. I only have Internet access at work so I am limited on my time when I can research. Give me a while and I'll get back as to if this amentment quietly died (as the current proposed issue will probably do) or was quietly passed.
Lynnea
That's "lin-NAY-ah"
Best of luck with Saffron--you are obviously giving her the best care.
I am not familiar with reptile shows (yet), but have been showing dogs for years. I am an officer of a kennel club, and so understand how things operate. The benefit of a dog show is that AKC, as parent club, always has a rep there. If dogs are found being mistreated (like left in a hot car), the show chair has to talk to the AKC rep, the offending owners are confronted with the show vet in attendance. An on-the-spot decision is made regarding safety of the dogs, and the owners can not only be fined after a hearing, but banned from showing. PETA or any other groups do not get involved.
Do the reptile shows have a vet on staff during the show? Can a person make a complaint to the show super or chair at the time of an alleged case of mistreatment, and could the offending exhibitor be asked to immediately rectify the situation or be asked to vacate the premises? I would think there would be *some* sort of guildelines for exhibitors to adhere to...
Thanks for input!
I am not familiar with reptile shows (yet), but have been showing dogs for years. I am an officer of a kennel club, and so understand how things operate. The benefit of a dog show is that AKC, as parent club, always has a rep there. If dogs are found being mistreated (like left in a hot car), the show chair has to talk to the AKC rep, the offending owners are confronted with the show vet in attendance. An on-the-spot decision is made regarding safety of the dogs, and the owners can not only be fined after a hearing, but banned from showing. PETA or any other groups do not get involved.
Do the reptile shows have a vet on staff during the show? Can a person make a complaint to the show super or chair at the time of an alleged case of mistreatment, and could the offending exhibitor be asked to immediately rectify the situation or be asked to vacate the premises? I would think there would be *some* sort of guildelines for exhibitors to adhere to...
Thanks for input!
TripleMoonsExotic
I <3 Stripes!
Some shows do have vets staff there that review vendor animals. I have only been to one show (MARS) that actually had a show vet and has a no tolerance for poor quality and wild caught animals.
At the smaller shows they don't have the sort of thing (at least in PA, MD & VA - it might vary from state to state if their are specific laws per state?).
When Lititz still had their show, I made a complaint on the vendor next to me to the show promoter and it was ignored. Evidently the dirt bag wholesaler was the promoter's friend. :shrugs:
suecornish
New member
This is what confused me some - there was a vehicle outside the building that gave me the impression that there was a vet on duty. It was from NC Vet College and had speciality tags.
I was looking at the table locations and the two dealers in questions are from North Carolina and, if I believe correctly, the sponsor - Gila Productions is also locate in NC so maybe these guys were buddys with the sponsor - who knows. I still haven't had a response from Gila Productions. I'll let you know what happens.
Related to what Blkkat has been saying: Blkkat, I truly do understand what you are saying. Freedoms are taken away by little tiny actions, one at a time, until you wake up one morning and notice that all these little tiny actions have a huge impact. I doubt very much if the current actions regarding the animals we love will pass because it will make a huge impact immediately. Most of the professional breeders like VIP are tackling it head on. I have only been keeping snakes since December 2006 and I plan on spending my retirement breeding snakes. I am still learning and I can admit when I am wrong. I have a tendency to have a cooler head than most and a wait and see attitude; I have sent a concerned letter to where it needed to go and that is all I can do right now.
I was looking at the table locations and the two dealers in questions are from North Carolina and, if I believe correctly, the sponsor - Gila Productions is also locate in NC so maybe these guys were buddys with the sponsor - who knows. I still haven't had a response from Gila Productions. I'll let you know what happens.
Related to what Blkkat has been saying: Blkkat, I truly do understand what you are saying. Freedoms are taken away by little tiny actions, one at a time, until you wake up one morning and notice that all these little tiny actions have a huge impact. I doubt very much if the current actions regarding the animals we love will pass because it will make a huge impact immediately. Most of the professional breeders like VIP are tackling it head on. I have only been keeping snakes since December 2006 and I plan on spending my retirement breeding snakes. I am still learning and I can admit when I am wrong. I have a tendency to have a cooler head than most and a wait and see attitude; I have sent a concerned letter to where it needed to go and that is all I can do right now.
suecornish
New member
Update on Saffron: She is getting a little more active but still no tongue flicking. She bounced on a peach fuzzy the night before last. The vet suggested feeding her something small after she shed. She had a beautiful shed and lost some ticks/mites. Along with her medicine every other night I am also giving her a mite bath (diluted head lice shampoo in water) every fourth night and swabbing her mouth with a diluted solution of betedine and water.
suecornish
New member
Thanks.
I get too emotional involved. If she does make it, it will be in part because of my tears and prayers to the Higher Spirit. I sometimes think my husband will end up being right - I won't be able to sell any snake babies because I'll become too attached to them. Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.
I get too emotional involved. If she does make it, it will be in part because of my tears and prayers to the Higher Spirit. I sometimes think my husband will end up being right - I won't be able to sell any snake babies because I'll become too attached to them. Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
I just noticed this thread. We have been emailing about the snake and the show, but didn't realize you posted it here, and that you sent a letter to the promoter.
The letter is a good idea. An even better idea, DURING the show, is to write down any complaints with the vendor name, and discuss it with the promoter right at the show. Then the promoter can actually go and see for himself.
One person complaining will help a little, especially if it is something obvious, like dead animals, or almost dead animals. But several people complaining about the exact same thing will help more.
I was less concerned about the baby iguanas (except that dead animals should always be removed immediately) because short periods (overnight) at room temps should be fine for them - they just won't feed and digest at those temps. But once the heat is supplied, it should be offered in such a way that they don't smother their cagemates.
I was more concerned by some of the really scrawny Tokay geckos, monitors, and a few other unsaleable looking animals I saw at the dealer's tables. I didn't really notice anything terrible at the breeders' tables. It is usually wild caught stuff at dealer / wholesaler tables that looks bad. I did look at the same table that the adult corn came from. The other adults I saw looked good, at least from a quick passing by. And a couple other customers came by with adults from that table that they wanted me to check the sex for them. Their corns looked fine. I think they just had one or more animals in bad condition that they tried to sell cheaply, but without explaining why they were so cheap.
I was not away from my table for more than an hour or so the whole show, so didn't really have time to closely observe who had what. But on the whole, animals looked pretty good, from what I could see.
I will be curious to hear what, if anything, you hear back from the promoter. Some shows have vets, some don't. I am not sure if there was a show vet at that show.
I am surprised your vet didn't pull of the ticks with tweezers. Didn't he give Ivermectin? I really thought the ticks would be gone by now. If they drop off without dying, they can re-infest your snake later. So be sure to get rid of them quickly.
Good luck with her.
The letter is a good idea. An even better idea, DURING the show, is to write down any complaints with the vendor name, and discuss it with the promoter right at the show. Then the promoter can actually go and see for himself.
One person complaining will help a little, especially if it is something obvious, like dead animals, or almost dead animals. But several people complaining about the exact same thing will help more.
I was less concerned about the baby iguanas (except that dead animals should always be removed immediately) because short periods (overnight) at room temps should be fine for them - they just won't feed and digest at those temps. But once the heat is supplied, it should be offered in such a way that they don't smother their cagemates.
I was more concerned by some of the really scrawny Tokay geckos, monitors, and a few other unsaleable looking animals I saw at the dealer's tables. I didn't really notice anything terrible at the breeders' tables. It is usually wild caught stuff at dealer / wholesaler tables that looks bad. I did look at the same table that the adult corn came from. The other adults I saw looked good, at least from a quick passing by. And a couple other customers came by with adults from that table that they wanted me to check the sex for them. Their corns looked fine. I think they just had one or more animals in bad condition that they tried to sell cheaply, but without explaining why they were so cheap.
I was not away from my table for more than an hour or so the whole show, so didn't really have time to closely observe who had what. But on the whole, animals looked pretty good, from what I could see.
I will be curious to hear what, if anything, you hear back from the promoter. Some shows have vets, some don't. I am not sure if there was a show vet at that show.
I am surprised your vet didn't pull of the ticks with tweezers. Didn't he give Ivermectin? I really thought the ticks would be gone by now. If they drop off without dying, they can re-infest your snake later. So be sure to get rid of them quickly.
Good luck with her.
suecornish
New member
The vet gave her a dose of Ivermicine when I took her in and there will be another dose on the 20th. Actually, it looked like there was a tick under each scale. Saffron was actually black speckled when I took her to the vet; they were everywhere. Apparently as she warmed up they started sucking blood and started to grow pushing the scales up, that's why I didn't see them until three days after we got her. Another thing for newbies to watch out for - ticks don't always show. I've dealt with mites before on Gaia when I first got her but not ticks. It's a new experience for me.
The mite bath I gave her (diluted head lice shampoo) knocked some off, some came off with the shed and hopefully some will come off with the next mite bath. More than likely after the 20th Kevin and I will go scale by scale to make sure we get them all and I am going to ask the vet if it is possible to have her on a Ivermicine dose maybe once a month or every 6 weeks just to make sure we get them all.
I have not heard from the sponsors yet. Please understand, most dealers were okay, it was just these two that stand out for me. Most of the animals we seen were fine but it just takes one or two to leave a bad feeling.
The mite bath I gave her (diluted head lice shampoo) knocked some off, some came off with the shed and hopefully some will come off with the next mite bath. More than likely after the 20th Kevin and I will go scale by scale to make sure we get them all and I am going to ask the vet if it is possible to have her on a Ivermicine dose maybe once a month or every 6 weeks just to make sure we get them all.
I have not heard from the sponsors yet. Please understand, most dealers were okay, it was just these two that stand out for me. Most of the animals we seen were fine but it just takes one or two to leave a bad feeling.
suecornish
New member
Further update on Saffron: she is a lot more active today and is looking to be feed. Still no tongue flicking.
TripleMoonsExotic
I <3 Stripes!
This is going to sound off the wall, but does does she have a tongue?
I've read cases where a snakes tongue falling out from an infection (I've mostly heard from bedding getting stuck down there and rotting it out). If she was in that bad of shape, it's possible something like that could have happened. All the snakes that I've read this happening to have survived and thrived without there tongue.
suecornish
New member
I've been wondering about that. I have been trying to find an anatomy chart showing the structure of the tongue. I mean, does it go in and out of some sort of sheath or just loll in their mouths like ours.
I don't really care if she no longer has a tongue as long as she gets better, eats and poops. Which she did again last night so I am also taking that a sign that she is getting better.
When I swabbed her mouth out I didn't see a tongue.
Maybe the cat got it. :shrugs:
Tonight she gets another bath, mouth swabbing and her medicine. We are also going on tick patrol to see if we can get rid of the black "freckles".
I don't really care if she no longer has a tongue as long as she gets better, eats and poops. Which she did again last night so I am also taking that a sign that she is getting better.
When I swabbed her mouth out I didn't see a tongue.
Maybe the cat got it. :shrugs:
Tonight she gets another bath, mouth swabbing and her medicine. We are also going on tick patrol to see if we can get rid of the black "freckles".
TripleMoonsExotic
I <3 Stripes!
The tongue sits in a sheath, but you can see the forked part.
Here's a poopy illustration:
I'd try and get a pic for you, but my mum burrowed my camera.
Here's a poopy illustration:
I'd try and get a pic for you, but my mum burrowed my camera.