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?? chocolate cornsnake ??

MastersHaven

MastersHaven

*Hopelessly Addicted*
I recently purchased a corn... I went to pick him up and the people I got him from had another snake there that they wanted to sale (they came together in a mass order) so I told them I would look at it too.

They picked up a bag that had "chocolate corn" wrote on it and opened it... The photos below are of the snake that came out of the bag. the color is not the best but he has a tanish/gray base color with rich brown blotches and a very dark gray head.

:shrugs: I have never heard of a chocolate cornsnake but I liked him so I brought him home assuming him to be some type of anery... Can anyone tell me with any amount of certianty what he may be or if there is even a such thing as a chocolate corn?

how would you even test for something like that?
 

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Never heard of a chocolate corn but from the picture it looks like a dark normal...very dark. We have hypomelanism so I don't see why we can't have hypermelanism as well. What are you going to breed it with? Is it wild caught?
 
The only time I've heard the term "chocolate" was in association with emoryi. I think Don at SMR has dabbled with these, but I'm not positive. In South Florida there is a population of corns that tend to lean towards being melanistic from what I've read, but I have never seen any photo evidence of them. The snake in the photo looks to me like a normal, maybe a dark Miami Phase if you will :shrugs:
 
His colors look like a rootbeer (emoryi x corn), but to me, his saddle shapes and sizes, as well as head shape, all say corn. But that doesn't necessarily rule out it's not a hybrid. Can you contact the people you got him from and ask about his parentage?

If you think he's an Anery, you'd have to mate him to an Anery A and B to determine his phenotype based off the babies.

Hope this helps somewhat.
 
the only way to get a real chocolate corn would be to use a chocolate emoryi, and then it would be an intergrade/hybrid.

it looks like a dark normal to me.
 
In response to everyone at once...

I am under the understanding that he was produced in an early 03 clutch (CB)... I dont know by whom, the folks i got him from just told me that he came in a large shipment along with about 20 other snakes. they didn't know anything other than that.

when I first seen him I thought Emoryi also, infact that is what my breeding plans are for him. I have a very nice female Emoryi that I purchased from Kathy Love that I plan on breeding him with this coming year in hopes of producing some nice little "Rootbeers" or what was the other name -- "Kasatchi" (sorry, if I spelled that wrong)

I do however have a fairly nice Anery Female that I could also breed him to to test out the Anery theory...

I have an Amel Female that was produced from a creamsicle X snow breeding that may be ready next year, I could breed him to also...
I wonder what would come of that breeding?!?!?

anyone else care to add their .02 please feel free to do so.

thanks guys...

princess said:
Never heard of a chocolate corn but from the picture it looks like a dark normal...very dark. We have hypomelanism so I don't see why we can't have hypermelanism as well. What are you going to breed it with? Is it wild caught?
Click to expand...

mbdorfer said:
The only time I've heard the term "chocolate" was in association with emoryi. I think Don at SMR has dabbled with these, but I'm not positive. In South Florida there is a population of corns that tend to lean towards being melanistic from what I've read, but I have never seen any photo evidence of them. The snake in the photo looks to me like a normal, maybe a dark Miami Phase if you will :shrugs:
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Edmund said:
His colors look like a rootbeer (emoryi x corn), but to me, his saddle shapes and sizes, as well as head shape, all say corn. But that doesn't necessarily rule out it's not a hybrid. Can you contact the people you got him from and ask about his parentage?
Click to expand...
 
Normal had crossed my mind also but the only thing that makes me think "no, to normal" is that he has no red or orange pigment to him at all...

His blotches are a deep chocolate brown and the rest is tan/gray mix...
Although... he does have what seems to be either a slight yellow or brighter tone of brown on the neck area (thats what made me think anery)

thanks...


wikkedkornman said:
the only way to get a real chocolate corn would be to use a chocolate emoryi, and then it would be an intergrade/hybrid.

it looks like a dark normal to me.
Click to expand...
 
you are exactly right...

the Elaphe slowinskii or Pantherophis slowinskii, more commonly called "Kasatchie" is a different species... my mistake...

Although it was up-until not too long ago considered a p. emoryi / p. guttata intergrade ....

I have also seen on other discussion forums, arguements that 3/4 emoryi X 1/4 corn intergrades will acheive the same speciman.

whether this is true... I have no clue.

At this point I am learning and while doing so my goal in breeding my snakes is only to produce healthy babies of a desirable quality and provide them to those interested. AND most importantly.... LEARN and GROW in knowledge while doing so!

Thanks for the correction...
 
I'd say he's a dark normal. The pics show that he's not screaming red, but from what I can tell, there's pigment in there that just doesn't scream anery. Try him out with a few different females.

You might want to see if you can contact who they bought the snake from. Sounds like the person you bought it from wasn't too knowledegable on the subject, unless they just felt like making up a lable. And if the snake was sold to them as a chocolate corn, the breeder may have an explanation as to why he sold it as that. He may end up being an intergrade after all.
 
That doesn't look like a pure corn at all to me. My bet is Corn X black rat. I have a few female corn X black rat hybrids. It doesn't look like a emoryi corn to me. Can you post a belly pic?

I'll get my hybrid females out and take a pic later.

LukeH
 
well, the folks I got him from purchased him in a collection clearout or something they mainly wanted other colubrids in the collection and only got the corns because they knew I may take them.... they were labeled that way when they got them so thats what they took them as... I didn't question it because at the time it didn't matter but now that I would like to breed them I really would like to know...

Jynx said:
Sounds like the person you bought it from wasn't too knowledegable on the subject, unless they just felt like making up a lable. And if the snake was sold to them as a chocolate corn, the breeder may have an explanation as to why he sold it as that. He may end up being an intergrade after all.
Click to expand...

Although, either way, this particular animal is going to be crossed with an emoryi on atleast one occation... I would just like to know for sure so when he is bred with my corns I will know what to tell folks who may be interested in the hatchlings... If he is an intergrade I want to be able to tell them that...


I have contacted the folks I got him from but it's been awhile sense I bought him so I dont know if they still have any contact info in their records for his origional owner...

Thanks guys!
 
actually... He resembles my emoryi female a good deal... and I KNOW she is pure Emoryi... I have a Black Rat and Albino Black Rats. I honestly dont think he is a black rat intergrade...

LukeH said:
That doesn't look like a pure corn at all to me. My bet is Corn X black rat. I have a few female corn X black rat hybrids. It doesn't look like a emoryi corn to me. Can you post a belly pic?

I'll get my hybrid females out and take a pic later.

LukeH
Click to expand...

here are photo's of my Emoryi Female, one of him (again) and a belly pic of him....

I would greatly appreciate photos of yours if you get the chance...
 

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That is an Emoryi x Corn do doubt in my mind, the weird colors are typical of normal Emoryi mixes. If he was sold as a normal to I would be pissed, I would bet the farm on it being a mix. This is the reason I don't like Emoryi mixes they are too hard to tell from corns.
 
CrazyCorn said:
This is the reason I don't like Emoryi mixes they are too hard to tell from corns.
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Then how do you know if the snake pictured is a rootbeer? Have you ever owned an adult rootbeer or seen them on several occasions to know that the snake does in fact does have emory blood?
 
I also forgot to add I watched them grow from hatchlings in 2002, I used to always go to his house but I haven't been there in a couple months.
 
Well, I just found the fact that you're saying without a doubt that it's a corn x emoryi mix interesting when later in your same post you say it's too hard to tell the difference between pure corns and corn x emoryi crosses. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

This picture sure looks like a dark normal to me.
 

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They are very hard to tell apart but that one is obvious, I have blown up the picture and looked at it. The yellow down the side is common of rootbeers and 75% mixes, so is the blotch color, a dark maroonish brown. Joe how many adult mixes have you seen? I have seen more than just my friends pair, I have probably seen around 20 or so different individuals.
 
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