Controversial Topic #3: Replies to "Newbs"

[desertanimal]

, there will always be those whose skills won't be enough. It's just too bad. It sucks that I can't participate in an Iron-Man competition either, but I just don't have what it takes. :shrugs:

Nor me, in modeling!

 

[susang]

And all this time I thought I was a super-model!

I think this is a related sub-topic. Sorry if it's not. I LOVE that people here ask others to to use proper grammar and spelling and to avoid overusing those inscrutable internet acronymns.
I appreciate that here, people hold up a standard of written communication and ask people to meet that standard. In general, that doesn't happen much anymore and I think people really suffer because of it. I like that people here are intelligent, thoughtful, and articulate and that they expect others to at least attempt to be thoughtful and articulate.

I will grant that it isn't always communicated in a nice way, but it certainly makes reading posts a lot easier when people actually try to make them make sense! And lots of people wouldn't bother with spellcheck if the culture on this site didn't value grammar so highly and make it known.

I agree and I also hate no punctuation and no caps. I know everyone can't wear a sign with thier abilities, just remarking to the question and agree it is a sub-topic. susan

 

[zwyatt]

Dean, would you just get out of here with these controversial topics ? Shaking the foundations of this great forum

I guess my opinion depends on whether you're referring to 1) how members reply to newbs or 2) how newbs respond to given advice.

I think in large part members do a great job of responding to new members. I can vaguely remember a period awhile back where there were a lot of "use the search function" responses to new member's questions. For the most part, I don't see that happening too much anymore. Plus, I think you can see a trend of more senior members 'retiring' from answering basic husbandry/health issues and other members who haven't been here quite as long (but have enough experience) take their places. Of course, you always have those experts who ask the question one day and turn around and are giving advice to someone else about the very same thing the next day.
The other big thing is the tone of new member's posts. I feel like the tone (grammar, spelling, maturity, etc...) of a post directly relates to how member's do or don't respond. Anyone who takes the time to put together a coherent question about a serious matter gets serious replies. Newbs who can't be bothered to 'speak' maturely sometimes aren't received as well.

If I see a thread from a newb that says "OMG!!! HELP!!! PLEEZ!!! sanke is sik" There's close to zero chance that I'm going to open it.


I can understand why some members turn to posting and give up on searching. Somethings just aren't easy to find through searching. This can be especially true when you're new and don't have the slightest clue what keywords to use. This, of course, doesn't apply to: Temps, Humidity, Water, Lighting...etc


I don't see how a "how to post on cs.com" sticky would do any good. It's a good idea in theory, but unless that is the first, and only, page a new member is greeted by, and they can't proceed until they have read the entire thing, I don't see how it would completely alleviate the re-hashing of old discussions and questions. We've got the FAQ's at the top of each forum,and while I appreciate Joe's efforts, (I've even used the FAQ's on more than one occasion) but how many times do questions still get asked about things covered in the FAQ's? People just don't take the time to read the stickies. I've seen it on more than one forum. They want to jump into the mix and interact, which I can't hold against them. Most of them are just eager to get established.



Now, if we're talking about how newbs respond to the advice given to them, it's really a case by case thing. Some people take the advice and implement it to a "T". Other people are only looking for an answer that satisfies them. Well, that's not what asking for advice is about. Is it? I think these are the people who frustrate members who try to offer support/help. When someone asks for help, you supply it to the best of your ability, and 2 minutes later they are starting a new thread dedicated to the same subject...it sort of turns you off to the idea of continuing to help other members who ask for help.


I've kind of lost my train of thought...so I'll stop there.

 

[Taceas]

These are fun little things to read. It certainly breaks the monotony and drivel that I've encountered on the forum the past month or two.

My opinion of the questions is the same as topic #2. Depends on their willingness to listen.

The other big thing is the tone of new member's posts. I feel like the tone (grammar, spelling, maturity, etc...) of a post directly relates to how member's do or don't respond. Anyone who takes the time to put together a coherent question about a serious matter gets serious replies. Newbs who can't be bothered to 'speak' maturely sometimes aren't received as well.

Agreed. My willingness to help them with questions depends on my perception of them with their posting style. If they can't take the time to ask questions in a reasonable manner, then I'm not going to take the time to help them. It may be rude, but they're going to have to learn sometime. And telling them in a friendly manner that their posting style (lack thereof) carries such weight is usually not well received. Some younger members just don't see the correlation. This is not a chat board, this is a discussion board. If you can't discuss so other people can help, that's your problem.

I am so fed up with a few new people and the "hlp my sankes m8'd, there bro and sis and 2 young and i didnt think they wuld do it, help!!1" questions I could spit. So frankly I've just avoided opening them if I can help it. Like someone else said on Topic #2, I wanted to tell that person to just flush the eggs. If you're that dumb to ignore the advice you were given last year on cohabitation of snakes and this happens, you don't deserve to allow those eggs to hatch.

WOW, I am a newbie. I have asked at least one silly question (0.0.0) and got rather slammed for it.

It was me who said in a friendly exasperated post about the question you asked "needing to be in a sticky", you were not slammed. I also believe I apologized if I came off as rude, because it was not and still is not my intention. People need to learn to read things from a more open perspective, rather than perceiving things as a personal attack. But in the end that thread did spark off a good discussion in the end.

find it easy to see things from the point of view of someone new to the hobby that might not know how to search, asks a commonly asked question wanting to learn something and receives these 'jeez why isn't there a sticky about this?' or 'just do a search' kind of response.

I agree the same old questions can be a drag but today's newbie is hopefully tomorrow's knowledgeable person that can take up the torch and pass what he has learned on to others.

I agree to a certain degree. But where is this hobby going to be when we have 20 year olds who can't take the initiative and responsibility to research their own pets? I despise laziness in general, but when people blatantly state they're too lazy to research properly, then I'm going to be 'lazy' and not teach it to you.

I love learning about animals I have, new and old. Even now as I plunge into a new hobby of keeping tarantulas I am constantly reading and participating on a forum utilizing the search and the myriad of posts they have set aside for new members to find easily.

Maybe there should be a tutorial 'how to post on CS' kind of etiquette thread when you first join informing you of the search function etc... just a thought.

I guess that's the one benefit of having moderators. People who are out in the action every day and know the types of things that would be well suited to being set aside in an easy to find location for the newer people to read. Here, you have to literally dig for the most basic and practical information if you were inclined to look for it yourself. So in a way I feel cornsnakes.com has shot themselves in the foot. Rich doesn't participate much and really isn't "in the loop" so to speak, so we kind of run things by ourselves much of the time.

The search button is not hard to find, and its not hard to use. The FAQ's need to be revamped and put in a place where they are easily accessible and seen.

I'll bet 90% of the people don't pay attention to the Stickies, myself included, because they don't normally catch my eye. So having the Feeding FAQ at the top of the Feeding section doesn't really help much.

I've found that most of the newer people congregate near the top of the forum, which is where most of the pertinent information should be placed. Like a "New Members Section" with subforums for FAQs, Rules, trouble shooting, comments/suggestions, etc. I guess what I am trying to say is that a little re-organizing of CS.com may help newer people find the information they need easily and with less chance of being snarked at for asking the 'zillionth question a millionth' time.

To sum up...a few reflections, observations, and wishes:

- I would like to see new members take as much interest and responsibility into their new hobby just as I did.

- Laziness doesn't get you anywhere.

- When older members give advice, please listen to it and consider it, don't just scoff at it because its not what you wanted to hear.

- Don't be afraid of asking questions, we all started somewhere at some point. Just try to make your posts as legible as possible. If you type like a 10 year old Mongolian, you're going to get treated like one.

- The Search button doesn't bite or pass on a disease. Trust me, I've used it lots and I'm still here to tell the tale.

In closing...there are a few good new members out there right now, I just wish there were more like them. You guys make it a pleasure to help new people with the same passion that has enraptured myself for a few years now.

 

[kathylove]

"The other big thing is the tone of new member's posts. I feel like the tone (grammar, spelling, maturity, etc...) of a post directly relates to how member's do or don't respond. Anyone who takes the time to put together a coherent question about a serious matter gets serious replies. Newbs who can't be bothered to 'speak' maturely sometimes aren't received as well.

If I see a thread from a newb that says "OMG!!! HELP!!! PLEEZ!!! sanke is sik" There's close to zero chance that I'm going to open it." --Zwyatt


EXACTLY! I sometimes answer basic questions, depending on the season and whether I am in the mood or not. Actually, I find hanging out here and sometimes answering questions to be kind of a stress reducing aid during my busy season.

BUT - I am much more likely to answer if the question is readable. Anyone can make a mistake here and there, but I am not going to wade through really bad English just to spend my time to answer. (I will make an exception for those who are using English as a second language). There are plenty of questions, so why should I have to work so hard just to help out? And if the person posting seems to think it is too much trouble to use a spell check or to at least look at the posts on the same page from the last day or two for duplication, then I have to assume that they value their time much more than they value mine. That is not a great incentive to spend time and effort answering a post!

I guess it all goes to what Zwyatt said about the tone of the question. If it seems like the newbie has put a little effort into the post or finding the answer, I am more than happy to help. But if it sounds like they feel their time is too valuable to waste, but mine isn't, then I am likely to ignore them.

Seems like basic human nature to me.

 

[Billybobob]

And if the person posting seems to think it is too much trouble to use a spell check or to at least look at the posts on the same page from the last day or two for duplication, then I have to assume that they value their time much more than they value mine. That is not a great incentive to spend time and effort answering a post!

I guess it all goes to what Zwyatt said about the tone of the question. If it seems like the newbie has put a little effort into the post or finding the answer, I am more than happy to help. But if it sounds like they feel their time is too valuable to waste, but mine isn't, then I am likely to ignore them.

I did not really address this in my first post and I am glad someone like Kathy Love was able to perfectly capture it because I feel the exact same way.

Kudos to you Kathy, that was a really good post.

 

[susang]

Hands up in air ready to uke01: I don't get the FAQ section.

We've got the FAQ's at the top of each forum,and while I appreciate Joe's efforts, (I've even used the FAQ's on more than one occasion) but how many times do questions still get asked about things covered in the FAQ's?

I really want to learn my way around this forum, to learn. What it is and, how do you use it? I'm being serious, not trying to hyjack thread. How do I use FAQ section???
And Taceas

Originally Posted by Samsung
WOW, I am a newbie. I have asked at least one silly question (0.0.0) and got rather slammed for it.

It's Susang, but Samsung would be OK too I'ld be rich. LOL susan

 

[zwyatt]

Hands up in air ready to uke01: I don't get the FAQ section.

I really want to learn my way around this forum, to learn. What it is and, how do you use it? I'm being serious, not trying to hyjack thread. How do I use FAQ section???

There's not much to get. HONEST. The FAQ's are just there to help with basic questions in each section of the forum. These are the questions that get asked over and over. For that reason they've been deemed "Frequently Asked".

There's no special way to "use" them. Think of them as a sort of search function. If you have a question that you're seeking an answer to, first do a search. If that doesn't yield anything, then head to the FAQ's.

Each sub-forum: Husbandry, Health Issues, etc... has the FAQ's stickied at the top of the page. So when you click on the Husbandry sub-forum from the cornsnakes.com main page, the FAQ thread will always be there right at the top. Just scroll through it and see if you're question has already been answered.

If you didn't find it with a search and it's not in the FAQ's, then it should be safe to start your own new thread to ask...BUT if you're still worried about being flamed just do what I always do/did and preface all new threads with the standard
"I did a search on this and couldn't find anything :shrugs: " :grin01:

 

[Serpwidgets]

hi ppl teel me wut color my sanke is plz???///

 

[CARattler40]

well it looks lik an anery but could be a oketee or a crimson i cant tell the picutres bad but o my goshness i love it1!!111one

 

[Taceas]

Will it fit in a deli cup? Cause if not, its too fat for me.

 

[lefty_mussolini]

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

 

[susang]

There's not much to get. HONEST. The FAQ's are just there to help with basic questions in each section of the forum. These are the questions that get asked over and over. For that reason they've been deemed "Frequently Asked".

There's no special way to "use" them. Think of them as a sort of search function. If you have a question that you're seeking an answer to, first do a search. If that doesn't yield anything, then head to the FAQ's.

Each sub-forum: Husbandry, Health Issues, etc... has the FAQ's stickied at the top of the page. So when you click on the Husbandry sub-forum from the cornsnakes.com main page, the FAQ thread will always be there right at the top. Just scroll through it and see if you're question has already been answered.

If you didn't find it with a search and it's not in the FAQ's, then it should be safe to start your own new thread to ask...BUT if you're still worried about being flamed just do what I always do/did and preface all new threads with the standard
"I did a search on this and couldn't find anything :shrugs: " :grin01:

Got it, I as a newbie was going to the FAQ section, next to user CP, typing in word or phrase and getting nothing, It was mentioned to me theya re at the top of each section, but since that isn't always the case, I was confused.
However, again I feel bad for asking, as it is so simple nad thank you zwyatt for your answer. susan

 

[PtDnsr]

I really do love this one Dean. My biggest pet peeve of newbies* is the lack of grammar and netiquette. I feel bad when you see one of those posts that you can't read and I see that it's someone my age. It gives others bad impressions of me (and those younger than I) in turn. As for the people that don't natively speak English, I do cut them a break. Then again, some of them speak better English than those of us that have been speaking it our entire lives.

Katie

*I say newbies because once you've been around the forums a while it seems that you learn to use proper grammar and netiquette.

 

[MegF.]

I try to remain civil and helpful for the most part in my posts to newbies and their questions. That said, I find that it gets more than frustrating to be asked advice and then have it ignored. Dean and I were discussing this the other day (very fun Dean!) and we both agreed it's almost not worth the effort. I want to cringe everytime I see a post about co-habitating, surprise breedings (geez, how did that happen??? I didn't see them holding hands or anything....) and how much my snakes love each other and can't live without the other. They ask if it's o.k. then tell you why they are going to do it anyway. I pretty much just pan thru the forum now. If I see a post that hasn't had any response or only one or two responses and they seem like they've given some thought to the question and it's posting, I'll answer. I enjoy seeing people get into this hobby/obsession, but they have to make me feel like they aren't on here as a joke.

 

[kimbyra]

Will it fit in a deli cup? Cause if not, its too fat for me.

Very, very funny!!!

I agree with most of what has been said here. I definitely see both sides.

The only thing I want to add to what has already been said is that we should be patient with newbies (not saying that I'M not one) because they come here with different levels of experience with internet interactions, and snake keeping - until they are rude or obnoxious of course. Who says that has to be met with complete civility.
Also, age should be taken into consideration. I LOVE it when a 10 year old wants to know how to take care of their new pet, instead of just throwing it a tank and tossing in food! We really shouldn't expect them to post in the same manner as a 25+ year old. They learn eventually.

 

[JM :o)]

Well...........I guess I think all of us (read that as specifically ME and some of you, but I don't want to be alone here! LOL!) have forgotten what it's like to BE new at this. It's not easy to learn all this stuff. A lot of the stuff we take for granted as common sense now is completely foreign to a newbie ~ "you mean I SHOULDN'T feed after it throws up? If it were a dog it would DIE if I waited 10 days to feed it!" "And what do all those words and numbers mean? Het, Homo(does that mean what I think it does?) Allele, genotype, 1.0.1 or 0.2.0??" What about that search function? Searching those will bring up a lot of threads (try searching "het" though)~ but very few that DEFINE them (the definitions are there~ but they are hard to find)~ and thats only if they KNOW what they are looking for. Even if they KNOW what it is they are searching for~ that search function sucks. I hate it. I tried looking up a thread I KNEW the name of and had posted in recently~ and I couldn't find it! I finally had to search my own name (the search function will not bring up my user name as it does not have enough letters) and then search for posts made by me to find the thread I wanted to find.

It's frustrating and demoralizing to think your the only idiot in the world that can't take care of "an easy care pet" properly~ they come here asking questions~ we get frustrated and treat them to some condemnation for being an idiot.

I do it too. I get especially frustrated in the feeder section. Half the advice I see handed out there is just wrong~ and I get tired of saying the same thing over and over (at the point where I started to become known as the "how to kill it lady" I stopped answering those questions pretty much all together).

I think we all just need to back up and remember this stuff is fun IF you understand it~ and it's frustrating if you don't. If we know where a thread is that answers all the questions we don't want to answer AGAIN~ would it take anymore effort to post a link to that thread than it does to post a belittling snotty remark?

I'm trying to remember to be less hatefull to those who get on my nerves (it's hard~ but I AM trying!) I think a lot of us should try a little harder at that.

Good luck all you newbies! It's really not all that difficult~ once you start to understand it!

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Thank you- that pretty much sums up the way I feel. Why even bother replying to a thread if all you want to do is rub the poster's nose in his mistakes like some unhousebroken puppy? I understand everything that has been said so far about the tone, spelling, grammar etc, but I also think nobody is perfect and everybody deserves another chance. Not endless chances, but at least one to learn by.
I know some people don't intend to be belittling and snotty but can sometimes come across that way. You don't know the situation of the person posting, as has been said they could have a developmental disability, be very young, or english could be their second language. I feel like 'who am I to judge?' If people are percieving this site as hostile to newcomers and getting scared away then maybe we are being a tad bit too exclusive. Give people a chance, give them a free mistake or two to learn by before jumping all over their case. Find out their situation, don't assume they are just ignorant. And like Mama said "If you don't have anything nice to say..."

 

[Mary-Beth]

When I first joined here I read posts for weeks before I ever posted anything myself. I guess it just seems logical to me - I'm searching on the internet for info about my new snakes, I find a place that's filled with info, so I read a lot of info.

If they're looking for the information they need and stumble across this place, why do they then expect us to do the work for them? They were researching to begin with right? It doesn't make sense to me.

I don't mind the "use the search" replies. I'd never been on a forum before (hadn't had a computer for very long) and didn't know anything about the search button. I found out about it by reading someone else's "cn my snks liv 2gether??/" thread. :grin01:

 

[ArpeggioAngel]

Thank you- that pretty much sums up the way I feel. Why even bother replying to a thread if all you want to do is rub the poster's nose in his mistakes like some unhousebroken puppy? I understand everything that has been said so far about the tone, spelling, grammar etc, but I also think nobody is perfect and everybody deserves another chance. Not endless chances, but at least one to learn by.
I know some people don't intend to be belittling and snotty but can sometimes come across that way. You don't know the situation of the person posting, as has been said they could have a developmental disability, be very young, or english could be their second language. I feel like 'who am I to judge?' If people are percieving this site as hostile to newcomers and getting scared away then maybe we are being a tad bit too exclusive. Give people a chance, give them a free mistake or two to learn by before jumping all over their case. Find out their situation, don't assume they are just ignorant. And like Mama said "If you don't have anything nice to say..."

Thank you Jen and Cheryl for remembering how hard it can be when someone is new to the world of reptiles and for being willing to cut us "newbies" a little slack. For my part, I will always attempt the FAQ's and search function before starting a question post as I would like to think that I am intelligent enough to do the research first. (It also helps that I live with CaptBogart) who has at least a little more experience that I do and I value him as a resource for my endless questions). I don't think I will ever fully understand genetics but since I do not plan on breeding that is one topic I don't have to broach anyways. I will continue to read and hopefully learn about it and it is great to know that there is a group of people available here for me if I ever do have questions about that or any other topic that I can't find the answer for myself. I appreciate everyone on here who has taken the time to make me feel welcome and to answer questions that I do have. This really is a wonderful forum with a wealth of knowledge to be found and the people who participate openly and warmly are the ones to be thanked for that.

Katie