Create a Gene from Scratch

[TyeW]

So where is the evidence then?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

dave, I believe and extremely complex way would be by insert a specific gene directly into an embryo. or perhaps creating a virus with a capsid containing said mutagen. the code would need be extremely precise. only allowing certain codes to be exchanged.

this is possible. when chicken pox rna is coded in to both helix. the virus then sits until the a start code is triggered. at this time it has became shingles .

basically the entire time you have had extra codes in your cells.

so what if said start code was removed and said code remained in the cell?

the cell would then produce more viruses causing more infection while at the same time the cell replicates. until all unaffected cells have died off or been converted.


This is only theory.

 

[Chip]

I remember seeing scaleless texas rat snakes at Dr. Bechtel's place many moons ago, but didn't realize that they were used to breed this trait into the corn snakes. With this in mind, has anyone introduced the leucistic gene from Texas rats into corn snakes? It would seem that if the scaleless gene can be done, than certainly the leucistic gene could as well.

Texas rats supposedly had nothing to do with scaleless corns. According to the guys in France that produced the first, it was a rootbeer breeding (P.g.emoryi X P.g.g.) in which the first scaleless "corn" hatched.

 

[Rich Z]

Texas rats supposedly had nothing to do with scaleless corns. According to the guys in France that produced the first, it was a rootbeer breeding (P.g.emoryi X P.g.g.) in which the first scaleless "corn" hatched.

Well, there does seem to be some evidence of a controversy on this topic -> http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119537

Not that a controversy concerning ANY new corn snake cultivar being labelled as a hybrid would be a surprise.

Heck, I think if I were going to try to get a Texas rat snake gene (Elaphe obsoleta lindheimeri) into the corn snake, I would likely try breeding Texas rat to emoryi first THEN the results from that into corns. Not saying that this is what likely happened, but the progression would make sense to me.

The problem with controversies of this nature is that actual facts (meaning the TRUTH) are so hard to come by, it seems.

 

[Chip]

I believe Robbie was mistaken. The originators have never admitted to any sort of thing, I spoke to them at length in Daytona. They describe it on their website (translated) : http://www.scaleless-cornsnake.com/collection_eng.html (of course, they always could be misleading people)

But, yeah, I've been around long enough to know that every new gene in corns is accused of being a hybrid. Not that a rootbeer *isn't* but there's a much larger gap between a corn and a Texas than a corn and a Great Plains.

 

[Chip]

How many persons have figured this out? My best guess is 9.

Forgot to add... I'm thoroughly confused by this post.


Although after watching a show in GMO's I did start thinking about the possibility of genetically modifying corn snakes! Doesn't seem like it would be too difficult with today's technology.

 

[NiklasTyreso]

I think genes just get screwed up when no new genetic material is added in.
Same goes for the wolves on isle royale, they now have shorter backs and hind legs than their main land cousins because they have been forced to inbreed so long.

Yes, inbreeding makes more animals homozygous form genes for illness, but inbreeding do not cause mutations.

 

[Kokopelli]

Mutations cannot be "generated", at least not by means of selective breeding.
Hybrid breeding can yield unpredictable results since different gene which usually do not interact suddenly do- but that's not mutation, it's a new Phenotype expressed thanks to a new Genotipic combination.

Genetic engineering? sure, but I don't foresee a time when it'll be worth the effort- we don't even fully understand the mutations we're dealing with in the hobby... for all we know, there may be side-effects we are not familiar with- it is possible that certain a morph lives 15-20% less years on average, but we wouldn't know it since there's very little study conducted.

 

[Kokopelli]

Mutations cannot be "generated", at least not by means of selective breeding.

Correction- completely sporadic mutations can be generated via radiation and so forth. What I meant was, that generating a specific mutation per design is impossible.

 

[Rich Z]

Yes, inbreeding makes more animals homozygous form genes for illness, but inbreeding do not cause mutations.

Yep. Inbreeding increases the ODDS of a gene that is already mutated within an animal of being expressed, but it doesn't actually CAUSE the mutation.

Even if you were able to generate a mutation within an animal, you would still have to cultivate it by inbreeding siblings in order to have it expressed visually. Of course, even if we could MANUFACTURE genetic mutations, it would be a lot like putting a gun in your hand, blindfolding you, spinning you around in a circle for an hour, and you expecting to just pull the trigger and hit the bullseye on a target you set up nearby. VERY long odds on you getting something that you would consider an improvement in the animal.

 

[kc261]

I don't have any documents to link you, but I think dogs are great examples. I would assume it's much the same as anything. I mean, look at white tigers- it's a fluke mutation that occurs in 1 of every ten thousand tigers, and every single white tiger alive today is descended from the same two animals, and every single one suffers from a variety of deformities or disabilities. I think genes just get screwed up when no new genetic material is added in.
Same goes for the wolves on isle royale, they now have shorter backs and hind legs than their main land cousins because they have been forced to inbreed so long.

AFAIK, the problems with dogs are caused by poor selective breeding (only caring about the looks but not the health, for example) combined with inbreeding. The white tigers are probably the same, but it could also be problems directly linked to the white gene, such as white dogs, especially white-headed dogs, are often deaf or have other issues. High white rats are prone to megacolon. There is a gene in horses called lethal white when it shows up in the homozygous form. My understanding has always been that these issues are not caused by mutations caused by inbreeding, but by genes that already existed showing up more often when they are concentrated in a certain population by inbreeding.

I don't know anything about the wolves on isle royale, but I would guess it is another example of the same thing.

So none of these are examples of mutations caused by inbreeding, or at least not proof. I'm not saying it isn't possible (although I do find it unlikely). But when every example I've ever seen put forward as evidence that inbreeding causes mutations can be explained by that fact we know is true that inbreeding can cause harmful mutations to show up more often in the inbred population, then I see no reason to leap to the conclusion that it causes the mutations.

Yes, inbreeding makes more animals homozygous form genes for illness, but inbreeding do not cause mutations.

Yep. Inbreeding increases the ODDS of a gene that is already mutated within an animal of being expressed, but it doesn't actually CAUSE the mutation.

This is exactly what I've always believed to be true.

Snakepunk, you said "Inbreeding is another method [that causes mutations]. Both methods are very well-documented, particularly in plants." I've asked you to let me know where I can find this documentation. This is a sincere request, because if I'm wrong and there is scientific documentation of inbreeding _causing_ mutations, I'd love to become educated about it. I would appreciate if you would at least address my request.

 

[Outcast]

Inbreeding generally leads to a higher chance of expressed recessive genes. And generally those genes are not helpful for survival of the animal or species. You can look into the Pharaoh's of Egypt and the royal family of England as an example of how inbreeding can bring unwanted recessive genes to expression in humans. It works the same way in animals. I have yet to read anything that states that inbreeding causes gene mutation. Other factors affect that, it is inbreeding that helps to cause the expression of those genes.

 

[Rich Z]

Inbreeding generally leads to a higher chance of expressed recessive genes. And generally those genes are not helpful for survival of the animal or species. You can look into the Pharaoh's of Egypt and the royal family of England as an example of how inbreeding can bring unwanted recessive genes to expression in humans. It works the same way in animals. I have yet to read anything that states that inbreeding causes gene mutation. Other factors affect that, it is inbreeding that helps to cause the expression of those genes.

I believe the presumption is that if a mutation does take place, there is a much greater likelihood that it will have a negative impact on the animal than a positive impact. So even if someone were able to FORCE mutations to take place in an animal, I think it would be a disappointing endeavor to undertake. Probably akin to going to the casinos at Las Vegas thinking you are going to make a killing there. Yeah, it CAN happen, but chances are it won't.