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Desperate!!!

I too would also just stick to what the animal has enzymes for. Even adult cats shouldn't drink milk as they no longer have the enzyme to break down the sugars in it and they get diarrhea. Some Nutribac injected into the mouse (f/t only of course), placed in the water, or powdered on the back of the food source should help her build back the good bacteria that the antibiotics have killed off. It has all sorts of good flora in it to replenish and we know that it's safe for reptiles. Frequent small feedings should help her gain the weight back rapidly as long as she keeps the food down.
 
I did apply Nutribac multiple times... not good enough apparently... the multiple small feedings is a bit of a problem cause she has hardly any appetite... maybe applying cat food would be the best thing to do... but how?

But why did the vet say applying kitten milk is ok then? (it was not the specialized rep vet, but where I bought the milk).

I'll see what the milk does to her poo... maybe the enzyme thing could give problems indeed. But I heared from a breeder he always uses it and it works...
 
Blutengel said:
But why did the vet say applying kitten milk is ok then? (it was not the specialized rep vet, but where I bought the milk).
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Just my instincts, but if someone who is not a specialist (and sometimes if they are) and they are selling you something when you are plainly worried enough to get your wallet out....maybe they wanted to sell you something, maybe they were genuinly trying to help.
I've used puppy milk powder for baby gerbils with good results, but for baby finches I always used boiled eggs and then ground-up seeds made into a paste with water. For an injured racing pigeon again I used cereals with water, because only baby mammals are designed to digest milk sugars.
 
Eggs made into paste are a good idea!!!! Thanks Janine! She needs proteins and I can add Nutribac and vitamins and minerals and don't have to open a can of cat food each time and throw most of it away...

The suggestion for kitten milk came from a breeder who called me when he saw my ad for live prey on the internet. The vet assistent were I bought it confirmed the vet of that practice (which is the reptile VET for that practice but only as a side interest in it) would prescribe it too... I myself am convinced that milk is not for adults, I don't even drink it myself but I trusted this breeder and the vet (assistant).... darn...
 
I'd check first that the snake will be able to digest the egg? I know you won't like this, but I can recommend 1 thing from my experience if you can't get her feeding regularly on live mice (btw, have you tried stunned and twitching hoppers?) Mouse puree! I can guarantee that will have all the snake needs, rather than kitten food or anything else.
But right now she will still take a live mouse about once a week? Maybe you should just stick to that and give her a chance to recover from the vet's treatment? If she consistently refuses the live prey then try the extra feeding but if she will take live then that is surely a real positive sign
 
But will one pink or fuzzie a week be enough to maintain her weight for some time? She did take a live pink as a second meal since the last antibio treatment, but then I'll have to ride for half an hour by car to get one every week...

I thought of mouse puree but have nothing to puree it, i'm not a pureei... would a pinky pump do the work? I can buy one at my pet shop.

I think egg is very easy to digest... meat = loads of proteins too... anyone any thoughts about it?
 
Thank you Mary-Beth! Now I have to find out where to get powdered eggs.... or just use hard boiled eggs and crumble them with water.

She has been offered prey from different bags and even rats and mice.... so if that is what you also wanted me to see, that has been done.
 
Blutengel said:
Thank you Mary-Beth! Now I have to find out where to get powdered eggs.... or just use hard boiled eggs and crumble them with water.

She has been offered prey from different bags and even rats and mice.... so if that is what you also wanted me to see, that has been done.
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Oh sorry, I just wanted to show you the egg part. :)
Around here I can get powdered eggs from the grocery store.
 
I would continue with the live prey. Even if you have to drive a bit to get them, I think it's not the best to be feeding cooked food of any kind, or food that isn't a normal food for them. They lack enzymes to break down cooked proteins. Raw egg carries the hazard of salmonella. As long as she's taking the live, feed it to her once a week or every 5 days. She will recover the weight, just not as fast. It's going to take her a bit to get all the enzymes back now that the anti biotic killed them all. You might also add a bit of Grapefruit seed extract to the water to increase the stomach's acidity. I used 2-3 drops per 8 ounces of water.
 
Mary-Beth said:
Oh sorry, I just wanted to show you the egg part. :)
Around here I can get powdered eggs from the grocery store.
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I hop eI can get that too cause finding GSE was very hard too.... would the egg food for birds do if I take the version without any seeds?
 
OK, so here is the time line I'm looking at by reading your posts:

She ate a pink on Oct. 25th
She ate a fuzzy six days later around the 31st.
She ate another fuzzy five days later on Nov. 5th. which came out not fully digested around the 10th.

If that is the case I would not be trying to feed her again by Nov. 12. If she has not been eating well and does not have a lot of good gut fauna, you should be proceeding very slow and not messing with a lot of stuff she wasn't meant to digest. If she can't digest a fuzzy, she won't be able to digest a gut full of egg either. The point is for her to digest food, not just to get a stomach full of it. Just like a regurge, those undigested poos say they are wiped out of fauna and the worst thing you could do right now is to get a big meal in her or to continue to attempt feedings every 5-6 days.
As suggested, I would raise her temps and make sure you don't fuss with her. Only do necessary water changes and cleanings, but don't handle her at all. It looks like you've already started that. The only other treatment I would try before giving her some "alone time" is perhaps syringe feeding her a tiny bit of nutri bac mixed with water. Only do one treatment then give her a break. I would not recommend GSE at this time.
Next you need to give her a little break on the feedings. I'd give her 7 days from the time she made the undigested poo. Then I'd feed her a live fuzzy, perhaps you can dip it's lower half in warm water and then try to get some nutri bac to stick, or think of some other way to get some nutri bac to stick to the fuzzy. If everything goes well, you should just stick to live fuzzies every seven days for about 4 or 5 feedings before you move her up. It really looks like you need to fix her digestion problems slowly before you worry about her feeding preferences.
 
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carol said:
OK, so here is the time line I'm looking at by reading your posts:

She ate a pink on Oct. 25th
She ate a fuzzy six days later around the 31st.
She ate another fuzzy five days later on Nov. 5th. which came out not fully digested around the 10th.

If that is the case I would not be trying to feed her again by Nov. 12. If she has not been eating well and does not have a lot of good gut fauna, you should be proceeding very slow and not messing with a lot of stuff she wasn't meant to digest. If she can't digest a fuzzy, she won't be able to digest a gut full of egg either. The point is for her to digest food, not just to get a stomach full of it. Just like a regurge, those undigested poos say they are wiped out of fauna and the worst thing you could do right now is to get a big meal in her or to continue to attempt feedings every 5-6 days.
As suggested, I would raise her temps and make sure you don't fuss with her. Only do necessary water changes and cleanings, but don't handle her at all. It looks like you've already started that. The only other treatment I would try before giving her some "alone time" is perhaps syringe feeding her a tiny bit of nutri bac mixed with water. Only do one treatment then give her a break. I would not recommend GSE at this time.
Next you need to give her a little break on the feedings. I'd give her 7 days from the time she made the undigested poo. Then I'd feed her a live fuzzy, perhaps you can dip it's lower half in warm water and then try to get some nutri bac to stick, or think of some other way to get some nutri bac to stick to the fuzzy. If everything goes well, you should just stick to live fuzzies every seven days for about 4 or 5 feedings before you move her up. It really needs like you need to fix her digestion problems slowly before you worry about her feeding preferences.
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Thanks for your long reply!

You are right about the timeline, only the second meal was a pink too. I do not handle at all indeed.

My thought on giving cat food or egg was that at least cat food is easy to digest and she can handle more of it. At the other hand, she is not at all close to starvation so trying a (live) pink every 7 days might be the best plan after all... *sigh* My impatience to finally get past this is taking over sometimes... I'll try a pink or fuzzie anyway on Wednesday and see what happens. If she does not eat, she needs nutritienst IMO and I cannot wait another week then before offering again I think... don't the gut flora need something to flourish in too?
 
What makes you think that cat food is easy to digest? If she has no enzymes to break down the cat food (which is processed meats and byproducts, many of them cooked) then it won't help her a bit. I'm thinking that Carol's advice is sensible and will give your girl time recover. Flora in the gut do not need anything other than the stomach to thrive. It's why we wait so long after a regurge...to allow the stomach to recover it's normal balance. Give her time, proper food and let her be. Once she fully recovers and gets back to normal, it won't be long before you won't notice a difference in her.
 
MegF. said:
What makes you think that cat food is easy to digest? If she has no enzymes to break down the cat food (which is processed meats and byproducts, many of them cooked) then it won't help her a bit. I'm thinking that Carol's advice is sensible and will give your girl time recover. Flora in the gut do not need anything other than the stomach to thrive. It's why we wait so long after a regurge...to allow the stomach to recover it's normal balance. Give her time, proper food and let her be. Once she fully recovers and gets back to normal, it won't be long before you won't notice a difference in her.
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My reptile vet advized me cat food.... and she is known as a terrific reptile vet in all parts of our country or at least most of it.

How difficult it might be, I have to be patient indeed I guess... thanks for pushing the patience button, I needed it! I do hope at least the poo might have speeded it up a bit... i'll give it some time now!
 
Patience is always the hardest especially when you've got one that's not well! Go have a nice cocktail, take a bath, read a book and relax!!! I know...easier said than done!
 
When Scarlett was having her regurge problems, Kathy Love advised me to feed her baby food chicken, thinned with water and with a generous pinch of Nutribac mixed in. She also told me I could add some boiled egg yoke crumbled up into the mixture. I bought a feeding syringe and fed her this mixture every five days for a month. She seemed to do quite well on this, though I wouldn't recommend it for long term feeding.

Here is a link to the original post:

Kathy Love's Post
 
Thanks Becky, only saw your reply today.

I wanted to offer a live pinky this weekend but my supplier accidentally killed about 3/4th of her mice population by making a dosing mistake deworming them.... so, no live prey for sale. Luckily for me her frozen stock is not from her colony, but bought in.

Freay has not the tiniest bit of interest for f/t, she only rests her head on it (yes, literally).... duh

Since my mice supplier uses kittenmilk too for all types of snakes with digestional problems and she knows my reptile vet also recommends it, I decided to give it another try for a month, like 4cc every 3 days, but in a heavier then normal solution (thicker substance). No offering prey during this period.

I also mailed the reptile vet about a supplement I saw on internet for carnivorus animals with any type of digestional problems (Digestzymez), which also stimulates the pancreas. It contains Pancrelipase, Pancreatin , Pepsin , Betain HCI, Foenugreek zaad , Papain, Amylase en Ox Bile extract. I shortly told her about the recent situation with Freya and she advises to try another type of antibio, cause it might be that she has crypto after all, though she did not test positive on crypto. She could not completely eliminate crypto as the cause of all this, since Freya keeps having problems. I asked her if I could first try a month of kitten milk, cause I don't want to kill any good flora that might exist now. But if she thinks another type of antibio might be the solution.... I 'll try it. She is the vet after all.... I'm waiting for her reply now. She does not know the supplement by the way.
 
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