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Early dumbo rat identification
- Thread starter Flagg
- Start date
sid the snake
New member
What ages are they? I have ten rats that are kept as pets. I have to dumbos, sometimes top eared rats can look very like dumbos - could you maybe post up a picture?
Just curious, but why cull them so early? I guess if you have some very young corns to feed. I wont cull them until they open their eyes, I just had a litter of 16 from two moms, and since they are just living off my female and not eating regular rat food I see no reason to cull yet seems they will about double in size before they start to become problematic. 
I wanted to get them at a small size for my smaller corns that are on mouse fuzzies and hoppers. I already have a surplus of rat pups in the freezer from letting them grow out til they could be easily sexed in earlier litters.
Recent litters hit 35-40g by 2 weeks, the exact size of which I have a large surplus, and the one corn that can handle that size appears to be on his yearly spring hunger strike, a bit early this year.
Recent litters hit 35-40g by 2 weeks, the exact size of which I have a large surplus, and the one corn that can handle that size appears to be on his yearly spring hunger strike, a bit early this year.
toyah
Snakes in designer genes
It's possible to determine ear type from a few hours old with a bit of practice. I will try to explain!
When tiny, rat ears are folded over and stuck onto the head in sort of a triangle. In top eared rats, they are folded over like the corner of a hankerchief (folded from top right to bottom left. This means that when they unfold they will stick straight up and slightly backwards (as they are folded slightly forwards)... so top eared.
Dumbos have their ears folded from back to front (like they are folded over a vertical line) the point of the 'handkerchief' is pointing directly forward towards the nose. This means that when they unfold they do so outwards and backwards, so staying on the side of their head and splaying away from the head more than top ears do.
If they're unfolded (2-3 days old) then these photos might help:
Dumbo: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/brecklagh/IMGP0438.jpg
Top eared: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/brecklagh/IMGP0440.jpg
When tiny, rat ears are folded over and stuck onto the head in sort of a triangle. In top eared rats, they are folded over like the corner of a hankerchief (folded from top right to bottom left. This means that when they unfold they will stick straight up and slightly backwards (as they are folded slightly forwards)... so top eared.
Dumbos have their ears folded from back to front (like they are folded over a vertical line) the point of the 'handkerchief' is pointing directly forward towards the nose. This means that when they unfold they do so outwards and backwards, so staying on the side of their head and splaying away from the head more than top ears do.
If they're unfolded (2-3 days old) then these photos might help:
Dumbo: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/brecklagh/IMGP0438.jpg
Top eared: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/brecklagh/IMGP0440.jpg
Well despite the examples posted, I still can't really tell which is normal and which is dumbo. I have 3 blues that I am hoping at least 1.1 are dumbos.
Here are a few pics I took of 2 of them. It was really hard to get a decent shot of their ears, trying to shoot the camera one handed while they wriggled around in my other hand.
Maybe somebody more knowledgeable can tell if they are standard ear or dumbo.
Here are a few pics I took of 2 of them. It was really hard to get a decent shot of their ears, trying to shoot the camera one handed while they wriggled around in my other hand.
Maybe somebody more knowledgeable can tell if they are standard ear or dumbo.
Daeraelle
New member
http://ratgrowth.homestead.com/
This website shows the difference between normal ears and dumbo ears. You'll have to read on week two.
(They look normal to me... but I'm no expert.)
This website shows the difference between normal ears and dumbo ears. You'll have to read on week two.
(They look normal to me... but I'm no expert.)
Thanks for the link. I'm going to let them all grow out until I can be positive, but just my luck I bet the blues are all standard ear. There's one that's either beige or platinum (I hope platinum, probably beige) that looks a lot more obviously dumbo, so you are probably right that they are standard.
ratsncorns
Bird Nerd
toyah said:
Ditto... my first thought to the pics were top ear
I find that in dumbos there is a very obvious point to their ears that point downward at a sharp angle. Top ears appear more round, and some even will point upwards.
What a difference a day makes. The dumbos are much easier to make out today, the ears stick out and point more straight back than the top ears. Unfortunately the 3 blues are, indeed top-eared as you all say. Some of the dumbos are beige and one or two look like they may be platinum (american blue and red eye dilute beige). I've never really seen a platinum before, but they are a lot lighter than the beige mother, almost white. They could be PEW, I guess, as I've had that show up in others in the father's line.
I crossed a beige hooded het blue and dumbo with a black berkshire het blue, beige and dumbo, so it certainly could have shown up. Though the odds of a triple recessive are pretty low, about 1:32 I believe with this crossing.
I was trying for a pair of blue dumbos, but if I have a pair of platinum dumbos then they would only give more platinum dumbos. It looks like I'll have to try another litter from the parents.
Thanks for the help everyone, rat genetics are interesting with such a quick turnaround compared to corns.
I crossed a beige hooded het blue and dumbo with a black berkshire het blue, beige and dumbo, so it certainly could have shown up. Though the odds of a triple recessive are pretty low, about 1:32 I believe with this crossing.
I was trying for a pair of blue dumbos, but if I have a pair of platinum dumbos then they would only give more platinum dumbos. It looks like I'll have to try another litter from the parents.
Thanks for the help everyone, rat genetics are interesting with such a quick turnaround compared to corns.
Daeraelle
New member
But if you do keep the top eared blues, there is a very good chance they will produce some blue dumbo babies. You could always try, it's not like you have to wait three years or anything before you can breed them, lol. It won't take long to find out if your blues are indeed het for dumbo (I've got at least two and a half years to go before I can find out if my snow I've had since July is or isn't het for caramel!) :shrugs: It's going to be so hard to cull out my little snake food factory's babies. I love rats, I say keep them all, lol. I'm sticking to plain old pet store feeders. Breed them a few times, replace. I don't need to breed for temperament, and the meaner they are, the better. I won't be tempted to keep all the babies.
The problem is, I've already kept far too many of them as pets. =) I started a year ago with 3 rats strictly for breeding feeders and I now have about 10 adult pet rats in 2 huge multi level cages. I don't even really breed them for feeders, just occasional litters working towards the blue dumbos and I use the extras as feeders.
I was thinking of trying just what you said, at least with the 2 blue parents the litters will be all blue and possibly some platinums but the odds are about 1:4 that both are het for dumbo. The parents at least I am now sure are het for everything. Plus waiting for the new ones to get old enough and reproduce will still take a good 4 months. I'm leaning more towards keeping 2 of the dumbos and taking my chances on the blue hets.
I was thinking of trying just what you said, at least with the 2 blue parents the litters will be all blue and possibly some platinums but the odds are about 1:4 that both are het for dumbo. The parents at least I am now sure are het for everything. Plus waiting for the new ones to get old enough and reproduce will still take a good 4 months. I'm leaning more towards keeping 2 of the dumbos and taking my chances on the blue hets.
I realize now that I made a mistake in choosing which colors to keep back when I did the original dumbo x blue pairing. The original dumbo is a beige, and I kept a female beige hooded of the litter to breed with a black berkshire sibling. I should have kept a black female. Now out of every pairing with those 2, I will get 1/2 beige, making it harder to get the blue dumbos I was trying for. Out of the current litter of dumbos, they are ALL beige.
One of them I thought was a PEW but now I can see a very faint hood on him, so I think it's a blue-beige or platinum. It's VERY faint and looks almost white.
The problem is, if I use them as breeders, all I will get is more beige or platinum dumbos and will never be able to get plain blue dumbos out of them.
Here's the platinum hooded, hard to make out the color but it's there.
I also just picked up this hairless male at the reptile show. He was only a few weeks old but luckily one of my nursing mother rats took him right in and he's doing great. I think he might be a beige as well, hopefully a double rex.
One of them I thought was a PEW but now I can see a very faint hood on him, so I think it's a blue-beige or platinum. It's VERY faint and looks almost white.
The problem is, if I use them as breeders, all I will get is more beige or platinum dumbos and will never be able to get plain blue dumbos out of them.
Here's the platinum hooded, hard to make out the color but it's there.
I also just picked up this hairless male at the reptile show. He was only a few weeks old but luckily one of my nursing mother rats took him right in and he's doing great. I think he might be a beige as well, hopefully a double rex.
Another disappointment
Seems like I have the worst luck here trying to breed blue dumbo rats.
I have my 2nd litter from the 2 het parents, same ones that produced the litter discussed in this thread.
Out of 14 it looks like only 2 blues this time and of course both are almost definitely top eared. Looks like yet ANOTHER buff dumbo and 1 or 2 buff-blue or maybe PEW dumbos yet again.. basically the exact same type that I got the last time. And of course a whole bunch of blacks, none of which seem to be dumbo.
The holdbacks from the first litter are still about a month away from breeding age, but I'm hoping I'll have better luck with those. I held back a buff-blue hooded dumbo male, a blue top-eared male, a blue top eared female, and a buff dumbo hooded female. As long as ONE of the blue top ear holdbacks is het for dumbo I should have better odds with those.
Seems like I have the worst luck here trying to breed blue dumbo rats.
I have my 2nd litter from the 2 het parents, same ones that produced the litter discussed in this thread.
Out of 14 it looks like only 2 blues this time and of course both are almost definitely top eared. Looks like yet ANOTHER buff dumbo and 1 or 2 buff-blue or maybe PEW dumbos yet again.. basically the exact same type that I got the last time. And of course a whole bunch of blacks, none of which seem to be dumbo.
The holdbacks from the first litter are still about a month away from breeding age, but I'm hoping I'll have better luck with those. I held back a buff-blue hooded dumbo male, a blue top-eared male, a blue top eared female, and a buff dumbo hooded female. As long as ONE of the blue top ear holdbacks is het for dumbo I should have better odds with those.
Daeraelle said:But if you do keep the top eared blues, there is a very good chance they will produce some blue dumbo babies. You could always try, it's not like you have to wait three years or anything before you can breed them, lol. It won't take long to find out if your blues are indeed het for dumbo (I've got at least two and a half years to go before I can find out if my snow I've had since July is or isn't het for caramel!) :shrugs: It's going to be so hard to cull out my little snake food factory's babies. I love rats, I say keep them all, lol. I'm sticking to plain old pet store feeders. Breed them a few times, replace. I don't need to breed for temperament, and the meaner they are, the better. I won't be tempted to keep all the babies.
I'm still trying to get a pair of them to breed, but the first attempt with a blue berk male holdback and a buff dumbo female holdback has produced ZERO dumbos. so with a 66% chance to be het dumbo, I struck out on the male blue holdback. I did get some blues though so at least I know the buff dumbo female is het blue. I'm keeping the blues (both apparently male), at least I know for sure they are blues het for dumbo.
I'm currently trying to breed the other holdbacks, a blue dumbo female and a blue-buff male dumbo. The only possible het I have to worry about in this one is the female being het dumbo. If she is then I should finally have some luck.
The proven female buff dumbo het blue unfortunalely cannot be bred to the blue-buff dumbo male because I would get ALL buffs and blue-buffs.