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Elvie Hates Us.

Maybe a snake is even more stressed if he is colder and something grabs him, because he can't react as fast as he wants to.
 
If it means anything to anyone - I'm not about to turn off my heater. Not because I'm against it or think its wrong - but because I have gone through so many bad heaters / thermostats - I don't want to stress this one out by turning it on and off!

Soooooo maybe that argument is mute and doesn't need to be discussed anyway?!?
 
Some snakes like to be held less than other snakes... I think that really it just takes a long time to get a snake used to being held.

You have to think about snakes in terms of MONTHS, not days or weeks.
The snake has to learn that you are OK, but let's face it, snakes aren't smart compared to cats or dogs. You need to just keep at it.

The majority of corn snakes end up being good at being held as adults. That is why people like corns- they are friendly snakes.
 
because turning it off an hour before, reduces the temperature on the warm side and then may be too cold for them, this wouldn't make them any more tamer to handle, in fact would stress them as if they need to warm up then can't

and i never heard of any protocol of handling by turning off the heat mat inside their tank

smallet said:
What is the reason for saying that turning off the tank heater for an hour before handling is bad? If you are following protocol for not handling for at least two days after feeding, there is nothing wrong with doing that all. In fact every one of dreamsnakes ideas were really good suggestions.
Click to expand...
 
I came up with that one because I live in a hot state and it was the middle of summer in an old home with a swamp cooler not an ac, so the corns spent half the year with no artificial heat. We live in a new home now with ac so I hardly ever turn the heaters off now. Remember that we as reptile keepers live in many places around the world, what someone does in New Mexico may not be viable in the Northern states, Canada, or Europe.
 
I am in MN, where it's April 23 and we just had snow yesterday. There are maybe 2 months out of the year that it MIGHT be a possibility to turn off artificial heating for the snakie friends. :) I understood that technique might only help in houses that average an air temp of higher than 68!!

I haven't had a chance to buy any nail polish yet - but I'm kinda excited to try things
To see how she reacts.

I did however get a chance to buy her another couple of vines and spruce up / rearrange her home yet again... She loves climbing in those things. Oh how I wish I could be a vine some days ;). She's so spoiled - I wonder what I'll do for her if she ever shows me even a teeny bit of interest!!?
 
CentricMalteser said:
because turning it off an hour before, reduces the temperature on the warm side and then may be too cold for them, this wouldn't make them any more tamer to handle, in fact would stress them as if they need to warm up then can't

and i never heard of any protocol of handling by turning off the heat mat inside their tank
Click to expand...
I said it was protocol not to handle for at least two days after feeding. I never said it was protocol to turn off the heater before handling. I said it wouldn't hurt the snake. It won't get too cold either. Think about a snake in the wild. Temperatures drop at night and it doesn't stress a snake. You brumate a snake at 55 degrees. No harm to the snake. If you have an on off thermostat it likely on cycles on and off every half an hour anyways. Snakes is still fine. And yes cooling snakes does calm them. Do a search on this site read the results. Quote from a book on buying snakes "Beware of breeders who have cooled their animals to make them appear more docile.". Turning off the heat pad for an hour before handling is only going to change the warm side by a few degrees. But it might calm the snake a whole lot more. And it certainly isn't going to stress the snake unless it is trying to digest something....in which I refer back to the beginning which is you shouldn't be handling it in the first place.
 
I forgot the best way to deal with a hateling...get more snakes. That way your attention is diverted and you're no longer staring down one terrified reptile.

My first roommate was a lizard nut. By the time she moved out she had five lizards and a rat. I had the interesting realization that I am allergic to skinks. I noticed that the lizards zeroed in on red nail polish. When I got snakes I tried out the polish trick and the corns seem to enjoy the colored nailed more then the regular nails. They run from me less and are more likely to remain in my hands instead of squirming away.

The whisk trick worked on my anery when she was in her flying stage.
 
Dreamsnake said:
I forgot the best way to deal with a hateling...get more snakes. That way your attention is diverted and you're no longer staring down one terrified reptile.

My first roommate was a lizard nut. By the time she moved out she had five lizards and a rat. I had the interesting realization that I am allergic to skinks. I noticed that the lizards zeroed in on red nail polish. When I got snakes I tried out the polish trick and the corns seem to enjoy the colored nailed more then the regular nails. They run from me less and are more likely to remain in my hands instead of squirming away.

The whisk trick worked on my anery when she was in her flying stage.
Click to expand...

Nope not going down that slope
Not going drag because of a snake
 
apologies as i though the protocol applied to the whole previous post,

in wild though, snakes will burrow themselves if they get too cold, and thus keeping themselves warm, by the insulated surroindings,

and when u cycle on and off every half hour, this temp drops only by few degrees, and the heat mat still remains warm

where as if u turning the heat OFF for an hour or so, this few degrees be even more

and it may be the case colder means calmer, but this can cause health issues to the snake as they cannot regulate their own body temperature, and any sudden increase of temp can also cause health issues and in extreme cases burns

in a tank, you got a range of temps, so the snake will not go from a very very cold spot, to a very very warm spot, as across the tank, the temp increases with every inch or centimetre

its a bit like putting ur cold hands under warm or hot water, to warm up, doesnt work, where as cold hands, under cold water (which is slightly warmer) would work

so putting the heating back on would mean not putting it on at the recommended 80-85F but similar temp to what the snake is and slowly increase it

smallet said:
I said it was protocol not to handle for at least two days after feeding. I never said it was protocol to turn off the heater before handling. I said it wouldn't hurt the snake. It won't get too cold either. Think about a snake in the wild. Temperatures drop at night and it doesn't stress a snake. You brumate a snake at 55 degrees. No harm to the snake. If you have an on off thermostat it likely on cycles on and off every half an hour anyways. Snakes is still fine. And yes cooling snakes does calm them. Do a search on this site read the results. Quote from a book on buying snakes "Beware of breeders who have cooled their animals to make them appear more docile.". Turning off the heat pad for an hour before handling is only going to change the warm side by a few degrees. But it might calm the snake a whole lot more. And it certainly isn't going to stress the snake unless it is trying to digest something....in which I refer back to the beginning which is you shouldn't be handling it in the first place.
Click to expand...
 
Centricmalteser: not the case. Search brumating on this site. And you find a lot of breeders take snakes from brumation temps back to regular temps in short periods. From don soderberg's book (corn snakes in captivity)"I abruptly converted the brumating breeders from cold to warm in one day and had normal egg production.". That is a change of 30 degrees in one day. 4 degrees in one hour isn't going to shock the snake. Also turning the heat off still leaves a heat gradient as the heat retention of bedding doesn't stop. It just isn't as varied. The whole purpose of the heat gradient is mostly for digestion. Think about what you are saying here. If there was health issue then taking your snake out to room temperature would be causing those same issues. If you follow your same logic then your 95 degree hands would be burning the snake. Or taking your snake out for handling and putting it back in it's viv would do the same things you are saying would happen by turning off the heater....totally not so or logical. If it were there would be a whole lot of unhealthy or dead snakes. Think about all those snakes sitting deli cups at reptile shows. Do they have a heat gradient....no. And they are all day with no health issues. Would you like more proof that a heater being off for an hour before handling isn't going to hurt the the snake in the slightest.
 
but you would not handle your snake for one hour, neither would you leave it roaming your room for an hour unattended

and since aspen is poor conduter of heat as its similar to wood, therefore retainment would be very very low, and therefore heat retention would be minimal,

the heat gradient isn't just for digestion, but also for other cellular activites, otherwise snakey would stay in the cool area of the tank until he has fed, but as you know, they spend roughly equal amounts of the time between the two

and you cannot say as no study has ever been done, that sitting i deli cups at reptile shows, have not had implications on the health because a) you don't get to see any bad sheds etc, b) they not going to bring out an ill snake and c) they cannot do this for a life of snake as they grow to big to fit in a deli cup, and therefore a study would be impossible to see whether this has any negative effect on the snakes health in the long term
 
Centricmalteser: You really need to read. I suggest the usual books by Cathy Love and Don Soderberg would be good starts.

First of all people do handle their snake for an hour at room temperature all the time. Room temperature for most is 70 degrees. Second people have their snakes on night drop with their thermostats where it will drop the temp by ten degrees at night. For OMG the whole night!

This hobby started at reptile shows 20 years ago before the internet was really available. If being in those deli cups hurt snakes we wouldn't be here today...So I don't need a study.

When people ship snakes through couriers...no heat gradient and they are in the shipping container for OMG 24 hours!!! And we have been doing this for years now.

And no snakes don't spend equal time on the hot side and cool side.

And yes I do get to see the snakes after the show....Cause their my snakes I am trying to sell....And OMG they don't always all sell at the show. And I wind up with them for years. And no they don't get ill.

And no they don't have long term affects....people have been taking display snakes to those very same shows and have had the same snake for years....and guess what the snake is fine. I take snakes to educational sessions for the whole day....no issues and they have no heat gradient.

Get a grip. If this were the case no snake would survive in the wild. No snake would survive brumation. Read the post!! 55 degrees to 85 degrees in one day by the one of the biggest breeders and most knowledgeable people in the business.

Read a search on this very site and you will see people reccommend to turn off heaters that have no regulation (for the obvious reason of of hurting the snake) till the owner can get reohstat or thermostat. Guess what that means.....no heat gradient.

Oh and BTW aspen isn't similar to wood....it is wood! And wood is a poor conductor of heat....Which also means that once it is warm it is slow to give up heat....ie check out log houses

Anyways I am done talking to you about this. I think I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt your ignorance in this matter even if you can't see it. As we are talking about turning off the heater for an hour before handling here.
 
I only posted all of the things I did to get my hatchlings to calm down and allow us to hold them. It was the summer in a very hot part of the world. Last summer I hardly needed to turn their uths on, because it was over 85 degrees inside. The corns spent all the time camped out on the cold sides, in the water bowls, or hanging on their vines. Some days I had to turn off the python's heat as well. Elvie's owner said she wasn't going to do this so why the debate?
 
I don't want anyone to think that I'm mistreating my snakes. I only turn off their heat when the temperature in the house raises to their digestive sweet spot so not to tax them. I even keep Nim slightly cooler then Zar since she prefers to be around 78-80 and not 84.
 
:) Elvie is Elvie. The same. I haven't been able to put on any nail polish or anything yet, I did try "cupping" her again to see if that would calm her a bit more but she just ran outta there immediately.

I think this is who she is, at least while she's small. I'll keep handling her, maybe try a few ideas along the way, and hope that with age she settles down a bit and decides that even if she doesn't like us, she can at least put up with us an maybe even enjoy a little time away from her tank :)

Thanks for asking!
 
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