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Euthanasia

N

northwestcorns

New member
I recently made a difficult decision to euthanize my snake. A bunch of folks have been helping me through Jewel's situation and I've gotten a lot of support both on and off of the forum.

One of the folks' PM'd me to suggest that I use the freezer as a humane technique for euthanasia.

I have decided to go with traditional euthanasia, Anesthetic gas and then an injection to quietly stop her heart.

I thought maybe we could explore the freezer technique and other techniques that people may have. Pros and Cons and whether folks feel this is legitimate. I'm not completely opposed, people need to do what is the right thing for them. Also with all of the new people on the list, I thought this may a pretty educational topic.

My vet actually prefers Oxygen oversaturation for reptiles. Their respiratory drive is actually Oxygen driven rather than CO2 driven like mammals are. In a high oxygen environment, snakes will just NOT take the next breath. If left in a high oxygen environment, their heart will eventually stop beating.
Thoughts on this technique?
 
I have no experience with Oxygen saturation but it is an interesting concept. I have never heard of that before.
 
northwestcorns said:
My vet actually prefers Oxygen oversaturation for reptiles. Their respiratory drive is actually Oxygen driven rather than CO2 driven like mammals are. In a high oxygen environment, snakes will just NOT take the next breath. If left in a high oxygen environment, their heart will eventually stop beating.
Thoughts on this technique?
Click to expand...

This is one of the things that makes reptiles more challenging to anesthetize than other animals. With a dog or cat, once the anesthetic drugs start wearing off, they are kept on oxygen for awhile until they begin to wake up.....obviously, this does not work with reptiles...
 
I am so sorry for your loss..
I am glad you brought this topic up though because I have never had to euthanize any of my snakes yet, and would like to know what people think is the most humane option.

Again, so sorry my crew's thoughts are with you.
Ali
 
In a high oxygen environment, snakes will just NOT take the next breath. If left in a high oxygen environment, their heart will eventually stop beating.
Thoughts on this technique?
Click to expand...
It's an interesting theory, but isn't this effectively just suffocating the snake (or forcing it to suffocate itself) over a quite long period of time? I've heard a theory that a snake can survive if its heart beats once an hour, so this technique would have to be in place for at least two hours for me to be satisfied that it's effective. Even then, I'd be wary of the potential for distress in the snake.

My vet uses the standard injectable euthanasia drug, but in a massively larger dose (calculated by body mass). This "overdose" still takes much longer to work than it would in other animals, but I do believe it's the most humane approach.

Here in the UK, I believe that the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons has ruled that freezing is inhumane, as snakes retain some level of consciousness throughout the freezing process. It's possible (although not proven) that they experience prolonged pain/distress as a result of this method of euthanasia.
 
Be-heading sounds brutal but would be quick. It is pretty hand on for the human. Many may not like that idea. Dead is dead and there is not a nice way to get there. As long as I didn’t see the blade fall, I’d go for the guillotine.
 
Fridge to slow down the metabolism, freezer to finish.

Comments above have forced me to ask, do reptiles get hypothermia and go to sleep as would mammals? I've heard freezing is bad because it happens so fast and the crystallization of the cells/organs is what is painful. Hence fridge first then freezer.

D80
 
Drizzt80 said:
Fridge to slow down the metabolism, freezer to finish.

Comments above have forced me to ask, do reptiles get hypothermia and go to sleep as would mammals? I've heard freezing is bad because it happens so fast and the crystallization of the cells/organs is what is painful. Hence fridge first then freezer.

D80
Click to expand...

Brent brings up some good points. We, as mammals, probably perceive cold much differently than would a reptile. Remember we are warm-blooded and have biological furnaces trying to keep us warm. It stands to reason that an animal without that function would go into hypothermia much more quickly than you and I. I don’t think it is possible to say what another animal feels or thinks.
 
I heard that the head can still feel though once the snake is beheaded- I don't know if it's for a while or just in seconds? Don't know where I heard that though...
 
Thinking about this has brought one thing to mind. I consider ALL of my snakes, as my pets. Not just animals that produce more animals. I couldn't even remotely consider be-heading one of my pets. Be it a Dog, Rabbit or Reptile. (Cat's are a different story. ;) J/K of course)

From what little I know on this subject, I have read that reptiles, when subjected to extreme cold, it causes there metabolism to slow rapidly and then slip into a hibernation (brumation) type sleep, before they die. I'm not sure if they feel any pain, during this process, but it would be good to know.

Wayne
 
You know there is no good answer here. We are assuming that in the first place there is some horrific reason the snake needs to be euthanized. There is something wrong that is going to cause the snake unimaginable suffering. We hope to prevent that suffering. You have got to keep that in mind.

Secondly you need to consider what Wayne said. You are the one swinging the ax. Can you live with that? If not, you better find a way that is expectable to you. It’s going to be in your nightmares for a long time.

And last but not least, we don’t want to cause the snake unnecessary suffering. Remembering we are trying to prevent suffering. If there is a flicker of life in a beheaded snake is that expectable in stead of months of suffering during a lingering death? If you feel really cold in the refrigerator for a few minutes is that worse than what Elle’s snakes went through last month?

Ideally we will never be confronted with the whole citation. In reality, if it comes up, you will have to choose the lesser of the evils. I believe for me the solution is the refrigerator and then the freezer. It may not be perfect but it is the best option that I am aware of considering the alternatives.
 
This has always been a very interesting concept for me.
For my senior year in high school, I wrote an extensive, and extensively referenced, paper...on Saint Sir Thomas More's Utopia, (1516).
Entitled 'Suicide, Martyrdom, and Thomas More'. He struggled with disagreeing on religious principles with Henry VIII's divorce from Catherine of Aragon...knowing it was suicide. But that it would also make him a martyr for the Catholic Church. But knowing that death would come, he felt suicide was a mortal sin. He wrote back and forth much with his close friend Erasmus of Rotterdam over this dilemma.

Also, upon reading his 'Utopia', I was introduced to communalism, voluntary suicide, and voluntary euthanasia. In this very sophisticated society, once a member became so aged or so infirm that he/she no longer was able to fulfill the duties of life independently, that they are a burden to both others and themselves,...they are persuaded by doctors, priests, and government leaders that they should put their hope in the afterlife and choose to let themselves die. Those who agree are let (released) from life during sleep, without pain. Those who do not agree are treated as kindly and tenderly as before.

References :
http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/morebio.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia_(book)
http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/utopia/section11.rhtml
http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/erasmus.html
 
I've heard that the only true pain-free euthanasia would be a crushing blow to the head. However, like Wade said, I don't know if I could live with myself doing that. So I've always said if I had to euthanize it would more than likely be the fridge/freezer option as that would be more humane for me and in my head at least, it would be me putting them to sleep and then letting them die in their sleep.
 
MinLynn said:
I've heard that the only true pain-free euthanasia would be a crushing blow to the head. However, like Wade said, I don't know if I could live with myself doing that. So I've always said if I had to euthanize it would more than likely be the fridge/freezer option as that would be more humane for me and in my head at least, it would be me putting them to sleep and then letting them die in their sleep.
Click to expand...
But Mindy, if out of kindness and mercy, you were doing it to my head....I would never know.

Although, I'd feel a little guilty about the mess needing to be cleaned up afterwards, maybe.....
 
Ah! And I guess you wouldn't know would you? But I would know and would have the picture of your crushed head imprinted on my brain knowing I did that. And then having to clean up afterwards(I'm sure you'd leave a bigger mess than a snakes')wouldn't exactly do wonders for my brain either! But I'd do it if it meant you no longer were suffering! So rest assured!
 
With the hatchling I had to cull last year, I decapitated it then gave it to my Kingsnake Skeeter. (it had eviscerated itself through the umbilical stump, which didn't heal over)
This year I have a badly kinked baby. I'm debating whether to miss out decapitation. Skeeter has a typical king's feeding response, but until I saw what he did to the hatchling's body I didn't realise why he's always coiled so much around his mice. He's designed to kill small snakes.
 

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