first rat

[starsevol]

I'd agree with you there - there are more stupid and cruel people then animal lovers. And I can see how unclear information can be frustrating and leave plenty of room for the unknown. I admit my first reaction to the post was similiar.
Glad to see I didn't offend you too much with my comment.

Life's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too short to go around offended all the time!

 

[Nanci]

Smacking the rat on the sidewalk in a pillowcase makes me feel like vomiting. How is THAT humane?

 

[Messorius]

Smacking the rat on the sidewalk in a pillowcase makes me feel like vomiting. How is THAT humane?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that bothered. Seriously? Smacking it on the ground? There has to be a better way to do that(cervical dislocation?).

 

[greatcornholio]

Well you have to ask yourself is it humane to bash it with a hammer? Or freeze it? How do you think they kill F/T? Remember even the F/T were born live.

 

[starsevol]

Smacking the rat on the sidewalk in a pillowcase makes me feel like vomiting. How is THAT humane?

That upsets me as well. But at least its quick. And I pray it was so fast the poor rat never knew what hit it.

I'm still trying to figure out if the op is wantonly cruel or just ignorant...

 

[starsevol]

hello there personwiththedisgustingnic,

Most frozen thawed snake food is killed HUMANELY with CO2 gas. They are unconscious in seconds with no fear or struggle at all. Pinkys are usually frozen but are dead in under a minute and are unconscious before ice crystals can form in their blood, which is VERY painful.

Well you have to ask yourself is it humane to bash it with a hammer? Or freeze it? How do you think they kill F/T? Remember even the F/T were born live.

 

[greatcornholio]

You really like putting people down. You should be ashamed of yourself. I was simply making a point that all animals are killed one way or another it is not your choice the way the owner chooses to kill them. So you shouldn't judge someone based on their actions. If I were to judge you based on your actions I would say that you are a fool and you like harassing people because it makes you feel superior. However I know this is not the case. So have some respect for people and their choices. The person was asking for advice not to be slandered.

 

[greatcornholio]

hello there personwiththedisgustingnic,

Most frozen thawed snake food is killed HUMANELY with CO2 gas. They are unconscious in seconds with no fear or struggle at all. Pinkys are usually frozen but are dead in under a minute and are unconscious before ice crystals can form in their blood, which is VERY painful.

IMHO killing anything isn't humane. Thats just a nice word for destroying life.

 

[starsevol]

You really like putting people down. You should be ashamed of yourself. I was simply making a point that all animals are killed one way or another it is not your choice the way the owner chooses to kill them. So you shouldn't judge someone based on their actions. If I were to judge you based on your actions I would say that you are a fool and you like harassing people because it makes you feel superior. However I know this is not the case. So have some respect for people and their choices. The person was asking for advice not to be slandered.

No, it is not my choice the way someone decides to kill an animal. BUT if they do it inhumanely I am DAMN well going to say something about it. I have NO respect for anyone who chooses an inhumane death for an animal when humane choices can be made.
Don't you dare tell me that I shouldnt judge people based on their actions. Are you saying serial killers should not be judged by THEIR actions??
If you think a peaceful death and a painful death are equally acceptable, there is something wrong with you. But judging by your nic, I think I'm just stating the obvious.....
And btw, the person was not asking for advice. He was proudly posting pics that displayed his shortcomings as a keeper.

 

[Nanci]

Humane:

1 : marked by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for humans or animals

Unacceptable Methods

Air embolism - Air embolism may be accompanied by convulsions, opisthotomus, and vocalization. If used, it should be done only in anesthetized animals.

Blow to the head - Unacceptable for most species.

Burning - Chemical or thermal burning of an animal is not an acceptable method of euthanasia.

Chloral hydrate - Unacceptable in small mammals.

Chloroform - Chloroform is a known hepatotoxin and suspected carcinogen and, therefore, is extremely hazardous to personnel.

Cyanide - Cyanide poses an extreme danger to personnel and the manner of death is aesthetically objectionable.

Decompression - Decompression is unacceptable for euthanasia because of numerous disadvantages including:
Many chambers are designed to produce decompression at a rate 15 to 60 times faster than that recommended as optimum for animals, resulting in pain and distress attributable to expanding gases trapped in body cavities.
Immature animals are tolerant of hypoxia, and longer periods of decompression are required before respiration ceases.
Accidental recompression, with recovery of injured animals, can occur.
Bleeding, vomiting, convulsions, urination, and defecation, which are aesthetically unpleasant, may develop in unconscious animals.

Drowning - Drowning is not a means of euthanasia and is inhumane.

Exsanguination - Because of the anxiety associated with extreme hypovolemia, exsanguination should be done only in sedated, stunned, or anesthetized animals.

Formalin - Direct immersion of an animal into formalin, as a means of euthanasia, is inhumane.

Household products and solvents - Acetone, quaternary compounds (including CCl4), laxatives, clove oil, dimethylketone, quaternary ammonium products (i.e. Roccal D Plus), antacids, and other commercial and household products or solvents are not acceptable agents for euthanasia.

Hypothermia - Hypothermia is not an appropriate method of euthanasia.

Neuromuscular blocking agents (nicotine, magnesium sulfate, potassium chloride, all curariform agents) - When used alone, these drugs all cause respiratory arrest before loss of consciousness, so the animal may perceive pain and distress after it is immobilized.

Rapid Freezing - Rapid freezing as a sole means of euthanasia is not considered to be humane. If used, animals should be anesthetized prior to freezing.

Strychnine - Strychnine causes violent convulsions and painful muscle contraction.

Stunning - Stunning may render an animal unconscious, but it is not a method of euthanasia (except for neonatal animals with thin craniums). If used, it must be immediately followed by a method that ensures death.

 

[TWGarland]

I agree with the opinions of Starsevol on the topic, but comments like the below which were posted for no reason that i can see, are just uncalled for

starsevol
hello there personwiththedisgustingnic

 

[Monger]

No, it is not my choice the way someone decides to kill an animal. BUT if they do it inhumanely I am DAMN well going to say something about it. I have NO respect for anyone who chooses an inhumane death for an animal when humane choices can be made.
Don't you dare tell me that I shouldnt judge people based on their actions. Are you saying serial killers should not be judged by THEIR actions??
If you think a peaceful death and a painful death are equally acceptable, there is something wrong with you. But judging by your nic, I think I'm just stating the obvious.....
And btw, the person was not asking for advice. He was proudly posting pics that displayed his shortcomings as a keeper.

Your logic boggles the mind. How does one draw any sort of line between feeding ones pets live feeders and the methods serial killers use to kill their victims? :shrugs:

 

[Monger]

hello there personwiththedisgustingnic..

....


..If you think a peaceful death and a painful death are equally acceptable, there is something wrong with you. But judging by your nic, I think I'm just stating the obvious.....

You're way out of line here, dude. You seem like a smart enough guy, I'm sure you can make your argument without getting indignant and resorting to petty attacks.

 

[v_various]

Your logic boggles the mind. How does one draw any sort of line between feeding ones pets live feeders and the methods serial killers use to kill their victims? :shrugs:

I think he was using it as an example, and I agree with him. I will judge a serial killer by his actions, and I will judge some one who is inhumane to animals. No one said the two different actions were on par (serial killers are worse, IMO), only that you can judge someone by what actions they choose to take.

I do agree that making fun of the guys nic is just silly though. That has nothing to do with anything, and comes off as childish.

 

[Plissken]

starsevol, you obviously have a great love and respect for animals, and this is something we share and something that I admire greatly in anyone.

However, I think it's important to recognise that animal cruelty can come from ignorance, nothing more. This doesn't make the act acceptable but immediately condemning someone as being cruel or stupid for posting pictures of a snake eating a rat is not very polite in my mind, to say the least. Not everybody is aware that feeding live is dangerous; in fact, you said this yourself on the first page, then in the next post asked the OP if they were either cruel, or stupid. This logic baffles me slightly.

What I'm trying to say is that education goes a long way and someone who committs an act perceived by you to be cruel is not necessarily cruel by personality.

 

[Nanci]

If you never watched Bevis and Butthead (and I'm willing to bet Lovesrats hasn't) then that nickname does sound vulgar. I never watched it either, but I used to have an (adult) friend who'd pull his sweatshirt over his head and say "I am the great Cornholio" or something and I'd be like- what??

 

[starsevol]

If you never watched Bevis and Butthead (and I'm willing to bet Lovesrats hasn't) then that nickname does sound vulgar. I never watched it either, but I used to have an (adult) friend who'd pull his sweatshirt over his head and say "I am the great Cornholio" or something and I'd be like- what??

I have heard of Beavis and Butthead, but have never watched it. So yes, that nic DID sound quite vulgar. I am sorry for my nasty comments regarding the kids nic. I really had no idea.

And Plisskin,I agree with you here. Cruelty often comes from ignorance. I kind of flew off the handle and for that I apologize. I am just so wicked TIRED of the "YouTube idiots", ya know?

And like Nanci, as much as bashing a rat against the sidewalk sickens me, at least the guy IS trying to do right by his snake. And if his pet will only accept live food, his choices are obviously limited as to how to provide it. I do wish he had mentioned the rat was stunned in the first post though.
And nothing against mice, but I KNOW my reaction wouldnt have been so strong if it had been a mouse and not a rat. Hell, some of my best friends are rats....

 

[Skyespirit86]

I, like most people feel compassion towards animals and do not want to see them hurt. However in the natural world things die. they have to, for their bodies to become food. Everything we eat, including plants was alive once. Obviously only the animals we eat really knew it. I personally believe that we can become too sensitised about littl things and numb to more important things. Think about the number of farm animals bred in appalling conditions and then killed in badly run slaughterhouses in order to supply places like KFC and mcdonalds. Yet many people crying over the death of a rat actually take the mickey out of vegetarians! I know they do because my best friend cries at the thought of someone dispatching a mouse, yet scoffs meat and dairy quite happily.
Personally I think that it is perfectly humane to kill a rodent by hitting it over the head, as long as it is done properly, not partially like the above person did, by putting it in a pillowcase. If you get the rodent by the tail and very quickly whack their heads against the edge of a table, they are dead. They cannot possibly know any pain in that split second. It is no different to the way farm animals are 'humanely' dispatched in a slaughterhouse, except they are stunned using electricity, or a bolt gun as they are much larger. I know all the snake food I buy is killed this way since they have blood coming from the nose when they are defrosted. It is the standard way of killing rodents in most zoos, or laboratories. I have bought from a couple off companies and both do this, so I don't think it is realistic to say most are killed by the removal of oxygen method. I don't think we should get so technical about the way we kill a rat or mouse, just because it is small, sweet and furry, and is being used to feed a snake instead of us. If you said you were going to nail it a wall and throw darts at it, I would object, but I think the standard whacking on the table is fine. Personally....

 

[Nanci]

You can speculate all you want on what is and what is not a humane method of euthanizing any animal, but the AVMA, American Veterinary Medical Association, will clearly define it for you, if you truly care.

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf

 

[cassandra]

I won't comment on the humanity of prey killing or the use of stunning before feeding.

What I will comment is I refuse to be a part of a community that verbally abuses people for their feeding method of choice. Calling someone stupid and cruel makes me want to delete this bookmark. There are enough immature and vicious reptile message forums on the internet and I thought cs.com was above that behavior.

Comment, professionally and kindly, with well argued points on what your opinion, experience and knowledge is. Slandering should not be welcome here. Or you'll find posters like me who leave permanently.