Genetics/Morph health question...

[Kokopelli]

You misunderstand.

Hrm, I seem to have skipped a very -crucial- ME after these two words. I really am sorry it came out so condescending, I -wanted- to type that you misunderstand me, bah :uhoh:

Sorry, I didn't mean it as it came out

 

[zwyatt]

Well you must realize that unlike snakes- dogs have been bred for hundreds of years- and also unlike snakes, people sought to make dogs bigger/smaller or otherwise very physically different from the original wolf.

The morphs revolve around defects in pigmentation, nothing more- people do not encourage the growth of physically different snakes but focus on coloration which should not effect or cause any given morph susceptibility to diseases.

Amelanistic cornsnakes' eyes are more sensitive, so direct sunlight is best avoided- but other than that, there's no difference between one snake to another.

As for sex-related ailments, well that depends if you plan to breed your snake- females naturally are far more vulnerable on that regard because they are the ones to form, carry and lay the eggs...

Other than that, it's pretty much the same- simply make sure you get your snake from a reputed breeder and know exactly what you are getting

For the most part, it doesn't matter what traits people are selecting for. Selecting for color rather than anything else isn't going to prevent the appearance of disease or morph specific ailments. It's not what's being selected for but rather the inbreeding that is the root of the problem. That's why different diseases arise and are typical of different breeds for instance. If it was just a matter of what they were selecting for and not inbreeding then all breeds/morphs would be getting the same diseases.

I would say that there does appear to be at least one morph-specific problem. Granted, it seems to be fairly restricted still and by no means a widespread thing, but stargazer seems to be pretty specific to sunkisseds. If I've kept up with the story correctly, the common denominator is sunkissed.

that´s the theory, but believe me, it would show up sometimes. if you don´t believe me, you could ask joe pierce and rich hume (for example). I met them personally last year and talked about exact this topic. They checked out some of my animals visually and agreed to me: I´m around with five striped anery females all possible het bloodred. three of them look very different to the other two - very high coloration like purple. I breed all of them them to the same anery bloodred male. the three different looking animals are definite het bloodred (they produced 5, 7 and 4 anery bloodreds), the other two produces 20 and 14 standart anerys only. so in anery bloodred stripe it seems to show up the het bloodred.

If an animal is heterozygous for a recessive allele and the other allele is "wild type" yet they still show some effect of being heterozygous, then it suggests that something more than a single locus effect is going on. Who knows what for sure? Maybe even something epigenetic since it doesn't seem to show the "het effect" equally well when combined with all morphs.

 

[EtR_Bliss]

It's not what's being selected for but rather the inbreeding that is the root of the problem. That's why different diseases arise and are typical of different breeds for instance. If it was just a matter of what they were selecting for and not inbreeding then all breeds/morphs would be getting the same diseases.

Cool, I thought that, but wasn't sure...

I guess the question now is... Do a lot of corn snake breeders inbreed to keep a specific morph available? Also, if I would go to an expo and ask a seller that question (if the snake I wanted to get was inbreed or not) do you think that they would tell the truth? :shrugs:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

It depends on the seller. If you want to be safe buy animals from ACR registered stock and that way you can look up the snakes and their family tree on that website. It is more common than not for a pair of animals that is for sale to be a male and female from the same clutch, almost a given. If they are not the seller will usually say it is 1.1 unrelated animals.

 

[EtR_Bliss]

It depends on the seller. If you want to be safe buy animals from ACR registered stock and that way you can look up the snakes and their family tree on that website. It is more common than not for a pair of animals that is for sale to be a male and female from the same clutch, almost a given. If they are not the seller will usually say it is 1.1 unrelated animals.

Cool, however, I am new to all of this... could you tell me what ACR is, how you look it up, and how you can actually find out if the seller has ACR registered animals?

Also, do you know if the NARBC epo would have all ACR sellers, or not everyone? I was also looking at the people from "Exotics By Nature Company" who have a website for their corns at www.cornsnakemorphs.com
I tried to see if they had ACR registered animals, but I could not figure it out... Does anyone know if they are, or at least how I can find it out? :shrugs:

Thanks

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Best answer is go check out the site and see what sellers go to what show, they have a breeder list with a map. Here is a link. ACR is acronym for American Cornsnake Registry.
http://herpregistry.com/acr/

 

[EtR_Bliss]

Best answer is go check out the site and see what sellers go to what show, they have a breeder list with a map. Here is a link. ACR is acronym for American Cornsnake Registry.
http://herpregistry.com/acr/

Cool, thanks

Wow... the first snake that I checked out from a different breeder had parents that were brother and sister... the parents had the same exact mom and dad... that is not too good
Unfortunately, Exotics By Nature is not registered under the ACR website So I can't check out if their snakes are inbreed... My best guess would be that they most likely are... but hpefully arent :uhoh:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

If you use the search on that website, I believe you can enter lavender hypo and all the snakes that carry both those genes will come up. It's probably going to be a little hard to find non-inbred snakes, though, especially if you are after a not so common morph.

 

[EtR_Bliss]

Unfortunately, Exotics By Nature is not registered under the ACR website So I can't check out if their snakes are inbreed... My best guess would be that they most likely are... but hopefully arent :uhoh:

However, I would guess that the more common morphs aren't inbreed, but the less common morphs might be inbreed.... hopefully not

 

[EtR_Bliss]

If you use the search on that website, I believe you can enter lavender hypo and all the snakes that carry both those genes will come up. It's probably going to be a little hard to find non-inbred snakes, though, especially if you are after a not so common morph.

lol, my thoughts exactly (about the less common morphs)
I will definately try to look some up, thanks for the advice :spinner:

 

[tbtusk]

Just to confuse things a little more inbreeding is not immediately a problem to the next generation. It's true, like you said, that over a few generations it can start doing harm, but after just one inbred generation problems are unlikely to show. Many breeders will not inbreed for more than, say 3 generations, before crossing out to bring in "fresh" genetics.

Since you are not planning on breeding your snake, I would say buying a snake from a line that has been inbred for one generation is not a problem. To make sure your snake will be in top health, you may not want to go further than that, but chances are those snakes will be fine, too.

Good luck on your hunt for that perfect snake! Oh, and good choice with the hypo lavender. They're incredible.

 

[EtR_Bliss]

Cool Thanks
Yeah... There was a part of mee saying the inbreeding isn't good at all, and then there was another part of me saying that if it wasn't so good, then most breeders wouldn't inbreed.

Thanks for your input I am less afraid of getting an inbred corn now (1st gen. slight possibility for 2nd)

As far as the morph... I am leaning towards the Lavander Hypo, Blue Motley (I only saw two sites with these) and an Okeetee (possibly Abbots)
However, I cannot make a full decision until I actually go to an expo or two... All of these morphs are so beautiful, and these internet pics don't really do them justice... I have to physically see them for myself before I make any FiNaL decision... It will be really hard though, I just don't think I will be able to make a decision on only one once I see them in person... I'll probably want them all :bird:

 

[tbtusk]

However, I cannot make a full decision until I actually go to an expo or two... All of these morphs are so beautiful, and these internet pics don't really do them justice... I have to physically see them for myself before I make any FiNaL decision... It will be really hard though, I just don't think I will be able to make a decision on only one once I see them in person... I'll probably want them all :bird:

so true. I never appretiated the crimson hypos until i saw my own ultramel hatchlings, some of which closely resembled them. You never know what you'll like.

 

[EtR_Bliss]

Exactly It's hard to know exactly what I would like until I've seen them physically... Eh, it probably will be even harder deciding once I see all of them at the expos... but it will be fun though :spinner: