Getting Discouraged

[BeckyG]

My little bloodred baby regurged again. This is the third time.

I've only had her for just over a month. She is 8 months old, but is still very small. She was eating f/t pinkies just fine for the first several feedings. A couple of weeks ago, I bumped her up to two pinkies, to try to get her transitioned to fuzzies. She took the first feeding just fine, but when I fed her two pinkies the second time, she regurged one of them. I was sure it was because of the size of the meal, because her temps are fine and I don't handle her after eating. I promptly ordered some Nutribac from Kathy Love. I waited the requisite 10 days to feed her again, and as soon as the Nutribac arrived, began putting it into her drinking water.

She seems active and normal in every other way, and even shed during the first 10 day wait. I removed her shed, checked her over and measured her. She'd grown an inch and a half since I got her. Before she started regurging, that is. Other than when she shed, I didn't bother her at all, except to change her water daily.

After 10 days, I fed her a single small pinky rolled in Nutribac. The next day, she regurged the partially digested pinky. I waited 10 more days, continued to add Nutribac to her water, and fed her just a pinky head rolled in Nutribac. Just the head left such a huge lump in her. That was yesterday. Today, she regurged the partially digested pinky head.

Tomorrow, I am going to call the vet, but I don't hold much hope that they would know anything about snakes. This is a farming community. They know dogs and cats and horses and cows. I can't imagine them knowing anything about an exotic pet. I guess I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that she will die.

I've read through the FAQ several times, but is there anything else I can be doing for her?

 

[Roy Munson]

Sorry to hear that, Becky. It sounds like you're doing everything you can. I hope you can find a competent herp vet. I guess the fact that she is not refusing food outright can be seen as a positive thing. Before I gave up all hope, I would try a different batch of f/t, or maybe the tiniest, newest, newborn live pink I could find. I've heard people say that they had fewer regurges on live than f/t. I sure hope you can turn her around somehow. Keep us posted.

 

[BeckyG]

Thanks Dean.

She eats eagerly when I feed her, so I take some hope from that. She just can't keep what she eats down. She also partially digests what she eats, so maybe she's getting a little nutrition from it, as well. I'll see what the vet has to say tomorrow. One of them has an iguana and some spiny tail lizards, so I'm hoping he'll be in when I go. I figure he'll know more than the ones who are scared of snakes. I'll also try to see if I can find a live pink for her. I know the PetCo won't have them, but maybe the mom and pop pet store over in Oxford will.


I see Onyx is out and about, so I'm going to go cuddle with him for a while. Maybe that'll make me feel better.

 

[cornsnakefan999]

well, not sure if this is true or not but my pet store says not to feed 2 mice at the same time? well you could try just one and see if he/she still regurges.

 

[BeckyG]

Thank you Cornsnakefan99, but I already did that. After the first regurge, I cut back to a single pinky and she still regurged. Then I cut back to a pinky head and she even regurged that. But I appreciate you trying to help.

BTW, it is ok to feed two mice on a temporary basis when transitioning to the next size up, which is what I was trying to do. But I wouldn't do it all the time.

She still seems active and alert, and even now is out cruising her viv. She just can't hold her meals down. :shrugs:

Could internal parasites be causing this?

 

[MegF.]

It could, but if you're feeding f/t, it's not likely. She could have picked up a bacterial infection from her water. I'd make sure you change it daily right now. You might try putting some Grapefruit seed extract in the water too, and use the Nutribac when feeding the mouse. Check out this link and see if there is a reptile vet near you who can give you more assistance. www.anapsid.org/vets/#vetlist It lists all registered reptile vets by state. Good luck to you. Sounds like you're doing everything right. The only thing I would do, is check one more time to make sure that your warm side is not too warm or cool.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

well, not sure if this is true or not but my pet store says not to feed 2 mice at the same time?

I've fed up to three adult mice to my adult cornsankes without a single regurge issue.

So I'm sure it couldn't be from that if you've attempted single and heads. My heart goes out to you, Becky. Good luck!

 

[recycling goddess]

becky,

i'm having a similar problem with my bloodred too. when i was at the breeders on friday picking up a new hog island boa he told me that bloodreds often have problems with regurge. as a matter of fact when i said to him that my corn had regurged and i was concerned (i was asking him for a live pinkie from his stock) he immediately said, "is it a bloodred?"

i know that doesn't make it better... but perhaps it is something within them...

 

[BeckyG]

Well, we are back from the vet. He said she was still very healthy looking, very active, and still has good muscle tone. He didn't think it was a bacterial infection, and he checked her mouth for stomatitis and didn't find any. He questioned me thoroughly about her temps and hides and if I held her after feeding her, which gave me a bit more confidence that he might know what he is doing. He said there are some parasites that could cause regurges, so he gave her a dose of Ivermectin. I had to hold her while he gave her that because none of the vet assistants would come into the room. I said, "What are you going to do if I have to bring one of my grown ones in?", and they replied, "we're going to stand at the door and watch!"

He gave me another liquid medicine that is supposed to strengthen her digestive system and help her not to vomit. I'm supposed to inject it under the skin of her pinkies before feeding her, and hopefully she will absorb enough to do her some good.

He also put in a call to the herpetologist at the veterinary college in Jackson, but got his voice mail. He asked him to call back, and will discuss this case with him. The vet said if they come up with anything different, he'd call me and let me know.

Maybe we'll get this under control. Thanks for the help everyone.

BTW, Meg, I've been looking for grapefruit seed extract all over town since she started regurging, and haven't found any. The closest thing we have to a health food store is a GNC, and they don't have it. I'll look online next.

I have been changing her water daily, and adding Nutribac to it since she started regurging, and the warm side temps are 82-83.

 

[Roy Munson]

Well, we are back from the vet. He said she was still very healthy looking, very active, and still has good muscle tone...

That's good news. The vet sounds like he knows his stuff, and it's great that he's seeking answers from other qualified people too. His assessment must be reassuring to you as well. I imagine that in your situation, I would always be wondering if my own assessment was clouded by wishful thinking. Nice to have an objective professional opinion. Keep us posted.

 

[Joni Garcia]

Sorry to hear about your bloodred having regurge problems. Sounds like good news from the vet, though.

As far as the Grapefruit Seed Extract goes... I had lots of trouble finding it too. I know you mentioned looking online if you can't find some. I searched online and found different brands etc. I finally ordered it through Ebay and purchased the NutriBiotic brand.

I checked and the seller I got mine from doesn't have any for sale right now (she was great... new, unopened bottles with Lot Exp date of 03/11). So if you can't find any, you might want to try Ebay. Good luck with your little one and keep us updated.

 

[BeckyG]

Thank you Dean. I do feel a bit better having an objective opinion. I tend to go from wishful thinking to giving up hope. I was also impressed that he consulted another vet.

Joni, thanks for the well wishes, and the advice. I'll be sure and check e-bay for the GSE, too.

:-offtopic

P.S. Dean, Onyx shed today. I measured him using Serp's program and he measured 38.5 inches. I tried to get a good head shot, but he wouldn't be still. I think I'm going to have to enlist the rugrat's help with that.

 

[MegF.]

You are right in that I got it from a health food store. We have several around me. I found this online and it's the same stuff I got from my health food store.
www.nutriteam.com/Grapefruit_Seed_Extract_Nutribiotic_GSE-p-1-c-264.html Hope the link helps. You'll want the liquid extract. I used 3 drops per 8 oz. of water.

 

[dionythicus]

I'm glad you got the grapefruit seed extract. I was going to offer to send you some from our local natural foods store. Keep us posted!

 

[BeckyG]

Thank you for the link Meg. I googled it, but didn't find it anywhere else for as low a price. I'll be ordering some posthaste.

dionythicus, I really appreciate your offer as well.

Some good news is that Scarlett pooed last night. It wasn't much of a poo, mostly urates, but a poo nonetheless. At lease her digestive system is still working--once the food gets past her stomach, that is. She was cruising her viv last night, too because her little water bowl was moved.

Now all there is to do is take a deep breath and wait patiently until time to feed her again, a week from tomorrow. And hope the other medicine works.

 

[BeckyG]

Update

Scarlett regurged her fourth feeding. It was another head, injected with the anti-vomiting medicine the vet gave me. I guess it takes a few doses to take effect. About half the head was digested, so maybe she got a little strength from it. She doesn't really look like she's losing weight yet, but she seems less active than before. I'll continue with the GSE in her water, and wait 8-10 days and try again.

Here's a picture:

 

[MegF.]

Sorry to hear about the regurge. I guess all you can do is keep trying.

 

[BeckyG]

Thanks Meg. I will keep trying.

Edited to add:

I just checked her and she left a relatively good sized poop, considering all she digested was half a pinky head. At least she is getting some nutrition out of what she is eating. I'm hoping she absorbed some of that medicine as well. It is supposed to strengthen the muscles of the digestive system as well as prevent nausea and vomiting.

Bloodreds have been my dream morph ever since I discovered their existence. I don't want to give up just yet.

 

[Roy Munson]

I just checked her and she left a relatively good sized poop, considering all she digested was half a pinky head. At least she is getting some nutrition out of what she is eating. I'm hoping she absorbed some of that medicine as well. It is supposed to strengthen the muscles of the digestive system as well as prevent nausea and vomiting.

Bloodreds have been my dream morph ever since I discovered their existence. I don't want to give up just yet.

These mixed results (some digestion/persistent regurge) must be causing you quite a bit of stress. I'm really pulling for this girl. I'm no expert in this, but I have to wonder if there comes a point where 8-10 days is too long to wait to attempt another meal. Yeah, on one hand you have to worry about whether the digestive juices have been given enough time to recover, but on the other hand, the weakening effects of malnutrition have to be weighed too. I don't have an answer to this, but it's something I've thought about in cases like this one. I guess in your case, I'd probably wait the full amount of time, in hopes that the medicine and GSE do their thing. But if the next feeding attempt results in a regurge, I'd have to seriously think about approaching this differently. Scarlett's just lucky to have such a dedicated keeper.

:-offtopic I like the new Onyx avatar. I hope you post photos of that handsome boy soon...

 

[BeckyG]

You're absolutely right, Dean. The mixed results are causing me to both pull my hair out, and have hope.

And I believe you are right about doing things differently. I debated this point with myself for a long time, and finally decided to go ahead and feed her even though it hadn't been the full 10 days. My reasoning was that the medicine won't do her any good if it isn't inside her.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things will turn out for the best.

:-offtopic I'll post some pictures of Onyx soon. Things with Scarlett have sort of thrown everything a bit off kilter.

I really appreciate everyone's support, and I'll keep you updated.