Heat Lamp VS Under Tank Heater

[knox]

Considering the heat bulb fails and breaks- you're looking at a fire and tons of damage. UTH breaks, it either dies or it heats up slightly, they don't get overly hot even broken, and if used properly, it won't even come close to cooking your snake.

Heat lamps have next to no place in snake husbandry. At all.

I respectfully disagree. These dome lamps are UL listed, incandescent fixtures. Funny how no one thinks ANYTHING about leaving lamps on. But sit them on top of a tank and all of a sudden they are the worst things in the world.

Where did this all start? I have no idea, but it is largely unfounded.

Again, EVERYTHING electrical comes with a risk. But I haven't had a problem with a table lamp, or a dome light, in my entire 42 years of living.

Interesting debate, though.

 

[Millinex]

I have been keeping snakes for over 30 years. In addition, for over 50 or more years, people have successfully raised and bred snakes using overhead lamps.

My Corn is very active during the day, WITH the light on. She comes out, watches me, crawls around, hides, all with the light on. Same with my Cal King. They are active, healthy, shed well, eat well, and show no signs of stress.

How many heat mats do you see in the forest? In the desert? In the jungle? What do you see? A huge overhead heat source in the sky. Burning brightly, all day long. Right over the planet. The overhead heat source warms the earth and the ambient air, exactly the way a heat lamp does.

I don't want to get ugly, but please, show me the equivalent of a UTH in nature. The closest you will get is a slab of rock, heated by an overhead heat source, with light shining down all day long.

Before you advise someone to do research, be sure they are not 42 years old with 30+ years of successful snake husbandry.

And it takes 10 seconds to mist a tank. You might want to see my thread on my Corn sipping the droplets off her water bowl from me misting. It rains in nature, as well. My snakes come out soon after I mist, drinking water and seeming to enjoy the new sensation of dampness. Much like in nature itself.

I welcome criticism, and don't claim to know everything there is to know. But I WILL dispel any information touted as "fact", when it is merely opinion.

Also, I don't hold grudges. So no harm, no foul.

Exactly- the slab of rock. This is as close to an UTH as we get. How it was warmed is irrelevant, as you are not using the heat source to warm the rock then for the snake to lay on.

Observe a corn in the wild, they aren't out in the heat of the day with massive amounts of heat coming down. I've most often seen corns (and colubrids in general) most active at dusk, or at night, laying where? On the warm roads, rocks, etc. When I go hiking, I frequently find snakes more active at hours of the day when there is minimal light, using the surface area of a rock or piece of wood to absorb heat.

You're also comparing the macro scale of our earth to the micro scale of a confined cage. Huge difference in my eyes.

 

[knox]

Exactly- the slab of rock. This is as close to an UTH as we get. How it was warmed is irrelevant, as you are not using the heat source to warm the rock then for the snake to lay on.

Observe a corn in the wild, they aren't out in the heat of the day with massive amounts of heat coming down. I've most often seen corns (and colubrids in general) most active at dusk, or at night, laying where? On the warm roads, rocks, etc. When I go hiking, I frequently find snakes more active at hours of the day when there is minimal light, using the surface area of a rock or piece of wood to absorb heat.

You're also comparing the macro scale of our earth to the micro scale of a confined cage. Huge difference in my eyes.

Then I suppose I am keeping the only Corn and King that are active in and 85 degree tank with an overhead light.

I suppose my snakes are the only ones in history to thrive in the conditions I provide - 85 degrees during the day under the lamp, 78 or so on the cool side, misting 2 to 3 times a week.

I am perplexed at their regular eating. Their perfect sheds. They calm nature when I hold them. Their active curiosity. How in the world did I obtain the only Corn and King to thrive in the horrible conditions I provide?

You guys are very entertaining, to say the least. I may have worn out my welcome here. If so, that's fine.

But it saddens me to see the next generation of snake keepers following the false religion of UTHs.

Again, they are wonderful! I love them. But to say overhead heating has NO PLACE at all in snake keeping is simply irresponsible.

So, if I must, I will take my genetic freaks of snakes who are more than healthy in my horrible husbandry conditions and bid farewell.

 

[MysticExotics]

I agree with Knox. UTH is not the *only* way to successfully keep snakes. I also agree that any electric heat source has it's own set of hazards, including UTH's.

 

[Millinex]

Also, knox, I'm sorry for coming off rude, wasn't my intention. I'm not good with keyboard communications.

 

[knox]

Let's see what the experts say:

Kathy Love's book, The Corn Snake Manual, page 20:

"Spotlights or hooded reflectors may also be used to direct incandescent light to a special basking rock or branch that the snake can utilize easily... The basking temperature on the perch site directly under the lamp should be approx. 95 degrees F. This slightly "too hot" spot allows the snake to thermoregulate properly to reach the temperatures it desires or needs..."

Philippe de Vosjoli's book, The Art of Keeping Snakes, page 95-96:

"In nature, the thermal gradients used by ectothermic animals are generated by solar radiation. Heat from the sun is absorbed, dissipated, stored, or reflected...
Provide heat primarily (emphasis added) with overhead incandescent lighting placed above basking sites of wood or rock that can absorb heat. The most common method is to place a reflector-type fixture with an incandescent bulb or spot-light on the enclosure's screen top and position it over the basking site"

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For those of you who doubt my research and husbandry methods, please take up your arguments with these giants of snake keeping.


However, I welcome any rebuttal. I am very curious to everyone's response to the valuable information I have cited.

 

[knox]

Also, knox, I'm sorry for coming off rude, wasn't my intention. I'm not good with keyboard communications.

Are you kidding? No sweat at all. But your apology shows great integrity. Thank you!

 

[knox]

I guess everyone is finished telling me how wrong I am LOL.

Listen, I am more interested in the care of snakes than in winning arguments. I LOVE snakes, and constantly read up on how to best care for them. I didn't just decide to use dome lights for the heck of it. I did so on the recommendation of qualified authors, breeders, and experienced keepers seasoned with years and years of husbandry.

THAT is the information I want to share with the younger snake keepers coming into the hobby, while dispelling the myths that many take as "fact".

 

[bitsy]

How many heat mats do you see in the forest? In the desert? In the jungle? What do you see? A huge overhead heat source in the sky. Burning brightly, all day long. Right over the planet. The overhead heat source warms the earth and the ambient air, exactly the way a heat lamp does.

I guess my take on this, is that in nature, a Corn has an unlimited number of hiding places to get away from the sun (as they're least active during the day) and find a safe place to thermoregulate away from direct sunlight. In a captive environment, their options are very limited and we have to take measures to protect them from risks that they simply wouldn't encounter in the wild.

show me the equivalent of a UTH in nature. The closest you will get is a slab of rock, heated by an overhead heat source, with light shining down all day long.

But you may not find a Corn spending a great amount of time out in the open, in daylight, basking on it. That exposes it to predators. It would have to be desperate for the correct thermoregulation conditions, for that consideration to over-ride its instincts for self-preservation - not something that arises in captivity, where we provide optimum conditions in a predator-free environment.

Plenty of folks keep Corns successfully with both undertank and overhead heat sources, so I've no issue with a correctly set up and managed overhead source. But I've always been wary of drawing direct comparisons between wild and captive conditions. Each has its own set of differing risks.

 

[knox]

But I've always been wary of drawing direct comparisons between wild and captive conditions. Each has its own set of differing risks.

I have absolutely no problem with this critique of my statement.

However, I do have a problem with people saying that a UTH more closely mimics nature than overhead heating. You are so right - EACH has its own set of differing risks.

Again, I refer back to the professionals I quoted. While I have been blasted all over different forums for my preference of overhead lighting, these authors have endorsed my views - because my views CAME from their books.

It's really simple. Provide heat, provide a gradient, provide hides. A snake doesn't care whether the heat is ambient or belly. Because - guess what? If the ambient temperature over a basking area is 85, SO IS THE GROUND BENEATH IT. Arguing this is like arguing that my coffee table isn't reading 75 degrees when the ambient temperature in my home is 75 degrees.

For anyone who doesn't like my husbandry, please order a copy of The Corn Snake Manual by Bill and Kathy Love, as well as The Art of Keeping Snakes by Pilippe de Vosjoli.

And STOP regurgitating myths you read on snake forums! While there is excellent information given on these sites, you need to dig a little deeper in the right areas.

 

[knox]

But you may not find a Corn spending a great amount of time out in the open, in daylight, basking on it. That exposes it to predators. It would have to be desperate for the correct thermoregulation conditions, for that consideration to over-ride its instincts for self-preservation - not something that arises in captivity, where we provide optimum conditions in a predator-free environment.

I keep hearing this - "Corns aren't active during the day". Am I the only one on this entire planet with 2 genetic freaks of nature? Both my Corn and my Cal King are very active during the day - ALL DAY.

They come out, explore, climb to the top of the tank, hide for a while, then come out again. My Corn, as it is doing right now, will watch me whenever I enter the room and sit down to surf the net or watch t.v.

Case in point... I JUST took this picture. I turned the overhead light on about 10 minutes ago. It is 8:08 in the morning. And here she is, peeking out at me. And now, she is half way out of her hide, staring at me sitting here on the sofa.

So no one, NO ONE has a Corn snake that is active during the day? I must have gotten very lucky with mine.

 

[knox]

Just took this of my King - 8:15 am. I turn the light on, THEN she comes out of her hide.

I either have the absolute coolest, most trusting snakes in the world who love and adore both my over head lights and me, or there is something wrong with the arguments I keep hearing about them not being active in the day.

 

[ScottyK]

There is a lot of leeway in what's considered "normal behavior" with this species, and the adaptability of reptiles in general.

I've seen corns and rat snakes basking in trees more times than I can count. It's more common in northern latitudes, but I have observed this as far south as Corkscrew Swamp and The Everglades. On cooler days they can be out any hour, including the middle of the afternoon.

You need to look carefully, go very slow and it helps to have some binoculars. The broken up nature of thier natural patterns does a great job of hiding them up in the dappled sunlight. This seems (to me at least) to partly explain why corns have different patterns and color schemes than more ground inclined snakes living in the same habitat.

I personally prefer heat mats in basic captive setups. For the most part due to longer life, ease of use and humidity issues. Not because I think it makes a big difference to the snake if all other parameters are good...

 

[AliCat37]

I keep hearing this - "Corns aren't active during the day". Am I the only one on this entire planet with 2 genetic freaks of nature? Both my Corn and my Cal King are very active during the day - ALL DAY.

They come out, explore, climb to the top of the tank, hide for a while, then come out again. My Corn, as it is doing right now, will watch me whenever I enter the room and sit down to surf the net or watch t.v.

Case in point... I JUST took this picture. I turned the overhead light on about 10 minutes ago. It is 8:08 in the morning. And here she is, peeking out at me. And now, she is half way out of her hide, staring at me sitting here on the sofa.

So no one, NO ONE has a Corn snake that is active during the day? I must have gotten very lucky with mine.

From my experience.. you probably do have the two freaks out there haha. My old king would be nosy sometimes during the day, but my corns are NEVER active in the day time. If you see them out in the morning I do believe that is normal. I see lots of snakes outside that come out dawn/dusk and then none until the night again. Except garters.

 

[knox]

Thanks Ali LOL. I guess freaks attract the same

 

[AliCat37]

Lol perhaps! But I am glad that your snakes are active in the day. I'd love to be able to actually see mine for once haha.

 

[Bryanchesnutt]

I use dome lights as well with regular bulbs. I see all of my corns out during the day at different times. I just make sure to provide a good temp gradiant and plenty of hides in different temps. Just like nature provides! And as for instinct to hide from predators....no predators in my house. They feel safe.

 

[knox]

Yeah, it's actually funny, and pretty cool, for her to watch what I am doing. She will even climb out of her tank onto my hand.

 

[JezaB]

InfraRed Ceramics; long wavelengths reach substrate pass through caves, branches hides much better than other heat lamps, they last forever and a day (larger investment up front, but better long run) Great for humid or dry environments, and much more natural than most other sources of 'heat' having said that, an under tank heater on a reliable thermostat works very well too. I like the heaters because they're invisible, but climbers will probably benefit from a lamp more easily; and it's great for choosing where your animals will likely bask, for easier viewing.

 

[Ahmad Rahim]

Under Tank Heater's all the way.