Hello everyone =)

[Furian]

Hi all !
First of all, English isn't my native language (I'm french) so please excuse any grammar or spelling mistakes that might pop here and there in my sentences.

I'm really glad to join this wonderful community and I hope i'll make a lot of great contact here.

I've been interested with reptiles for a long time (I'm 22yo btw) and read a lot of books about them, but I've finally recently decided to get one now (the fact that money is just starting to grow in my pocket helped on that part heh).

at that point I'm quite sure you're telling yourself "WTH dude this is off topic" but I'm not done yet, here is my question.

I'll buy two or three cornsnakes (1 male 2 female) that I plan on breeding when they'll reach adult size. And I'm wondering what "combos" are doing nice phases.
Now about the first phase, I've been knowing for sure that I want a Bloodred since I saw this picture

and i'm quite interested by the blizzard too

but I've heard some kind of yellow stripes appear here and there as they grow old, is that true? (I was interested in that pure white color).
Anyway I don't really like albinos, beside that particular blizzard phase, and for the third one I would like to have a non-albinos with a lot of yellow color in it to make some nice phases with the bloodred.

Any advice?

I though about a striped caramel but it looks quite expensive, so a caramel motley will do fine I guess :

So what kind of phases could I expect from these ?

by the way I've made a website to inaugurate my small-step-but-big-jump in the terrariophile world. feel free to let me know what you think about it !

Thank you for your time
Julien

 

[Kat]

Quick rundown of genes in your selections:
Bloodred: Diffused gene
Caramel Motley: Caramel gene, Motley gene
Blizzard: Charcoal gene, Amelanistic gene (albino)

Not all blizzards will get yellow on them... some do. Some opals (amelanistic lavenders) lose their color and turn white.

A better third choice instead of a caramel motley would be a Pewter. Since Pewters are homozygous for both Charcoal and Diffused, you could pair the pewter with either the bloodred or the blizzard and get non-normal colored hatchlings.

-Kat

 

[Kat]

Er... and as to what you can expect from Bloodred, Blizzard, and Caramel Motley mixes:

Normals. Normals het for whatever genes the parents were carrying. Why? Bloodred, Blizzard, and Caramel Motley have zero recessive genes in common. (Okay, in practice you're likely to get amels, simply because it's hard to find a corn that's NOT het amel...)

I'll let someone else give the possible F2s for that group as I'm a little short on time ATM. Plus, I can't take all their fun.

-Kat

 

[Serpwidgets]

Bloodred is homozygous for the diffusion gene.

Blizzard is homozygous for the amel gene and homozygous for the charcoal gene.

Caramel motley is homozygous for the caramel gene and the motley gene.

Any of these will pass one copy of the gene to any of their babies. A baby will show that trait when the gene is inherited from BOTH parents. So in this case, none of the genes overlap, and you would get normals (F1) from crossing the above snakes to each other.

Onw way to bring the traits back is to cross these (F1) to each other, sister to brother. In the second generation, approx 1/4 of the babies will show the trait (so 1/16 would show two traits, 1/64 would show three.)

The two-trait combinations (depending on who you cross) could be:
Diffused & Charcoal (Pewter corns)
Diffused & Amel
Diffused & Caramel
Diffused & Motley
Charcoal & Amel (Blizzard)
Charcoal & Caramel (???)
Charcoal & Motley
Amel & Caramel (Butter)
Amel & Motley (some could be sunglow motleys)
Caramel & Motley

There are a LOT of combinations possible, so it is really up to your imagination .

 

[Kat]

D'oh.. I should read posts more carefully... you wanted a yellow morph for making bloodred morphs, not something to make non-normal morphs... *facepalms* S'what I get for trying to answer cornsnake questions whilest studying for a chem test...

In which case... caramel motley's probably your best choice. There are butter bloodreds and caramel bloodreds out there, but none for sale that I've heard of. Plus if you balk at the price of a caramel stripe, I don't think you'd be willing to pay the cost needed to pry one of those bloodred morphs from their owners' collections.


Hey Rich... do you have any adult pics of that caramel bloodred you hatched way back when?


-Kat

 

[Serpwidgets]

Also, if you are buying a charcoal, blizzard, or pewter, be sure the breeder has proven that it is a charcoal. There are many "charcoals" and "blizzards" that are actually anerys and snows. :santa:

 

[Kat]

To add to Serp's warning, in Europe it's common to see red corns called Bloodred even if they don't carry the bloodred genetics. (I'm guessing you're in Europe based on your website's URL...) Make sure you know exactly what you're getting.

-Kat

 

[El Jefe]

Hi all !
First of all, English isn't my native language (I'm french) so please excuse any grammar or spelling mistakes that might pop here and there in my sentences.

I wish some of the people in the US would write that well.... :sidestep:


As far as your other things......you already have two good people giving advice (Kat and Serp)...listen to them. I'd mereley be repeating their answers.

 

[Furian]

Wow guys i'm litterally in awe in front of my computer ! thanks a lot for the in depth answers you took time to write, you guys rulez !

Oh and thanks MohrSnakes heh, doing my best to be readable is the least I can do when I ask a question, especially considering the quality of the answers.

My dream would, in fact, be to have a bloodred with some yellow and white stripe, but if I understood well (i'll have to re-read them a few dozen times to be sure) they all have genes that are too "strong" to be "absorbed" by the other one and make a mix. if that's right, well... poo.

maybe I could give a shot at a Creamsicle yellow phase

instead of the caramel motley, but I've been reading the forum for a bit and I recall seeing somewhere that they weren't "pure" cornsnake and that it wasn't "ethical" to mix them with the gene pool or something (sorry it's 4am here hehe).

What about Kisatchie ?

I love those brownish color, I wonder what it would give with a bloodred

 

[Jynx]

Ethical or not... its a matter of opinion I guess. I personally see nothing wrong with it. Creamsicles are an intergrade between a cornsnake and a Great Plains rat snake. They are so closely related that they probably breed in the wild anyways. As a matter of fact, Kistatchies are believed to be a wild intergrade between corns and rats, although I don't know if it has been proven. Wait until you hear some of the discussions on the "morality" (or lackthereof) of Jungle Corns (cornsnake X kingsnake).

As to what morph should you look into? Completely up to what you want to have in your collection, see everyday, and how much it will excite you.

Seems you are really into the yellow/orange morphs. Since you want to throw the diffuse (bloodred) gene in the mix, might want to check out Sulfurs. They are a triple morph combination of carmel, amel, and diffuse. I am currently working on a very extended project with sulfurs. My goal is to acheive a near patternless Sulfur through selective breeding. Caramel bloods are very nice as well, but I'm just not really into caramels that much. I can only think of a few people that have produced Amber Bloodreds (caramel, hypo, diffuse) but I don't think any are for sale.

One thing you always have to remember with cornsnake morphs is the VARIETY. Bloodreds do not come out looking like that beauty of Don's you posted earlier every day. The amount of yellow in a Blizzard depends on the genes. Some get very cool yellow rings around their saddles, some stay white. Some Creamsicles have more yellow than orange and vice versa (depending on the % of corn to emoryi blood there is). Two corns of the same morph may look completely different. The cause of this goes deeper than just recessive genes. Now you are getting into selective breeding... thats a whole different story.

LIGHTBULB: I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to produce a creamsicle bloodred... that would be interesting. Could be something for ya Furian.

BTW- Welcome to the forums!

 

[Kat]

Creamsicles are a matter of 'taste'... some people don't like breeding corns to their cousin species, some do. Incidentally, according to recent genetic studies, kisatchies are another separate species from corns, so kisatchie X corn would be in the same genre of emoryi X corn. If you do decide to breed creams or kisatchie corns, it's best to label them all as not pure corn, for the people that are concerned with lineage.

-Kat

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Furian, just a friendly warning...Most individuals don't appreciate their photos being "hijacked." You should have permission from the owners prior to posting them on a thread, and they should be credited!

With that, welcome to the forums and the wonderful addiction of cornsnakes!

I'm not all sure what you're exactly looking for in your first cornsnake breeding projects...but I would recommend that you stick with a trio that are genetically compatible before dipping into the cornsnake color pot again! If you like the yellows, I'd recommend getting Butters (maybe het for Motley and/or Stripe if you like the pattern mutations).

 

[Furian]

Thanks a lot for your answers !
About the photos, you're right I shouldn't have posted them like that without giving the source, these are from South Mountain Reptile.

Thanks again for all the infos, I'm going to wait for the 1st october since there's a reptile convention in paris where i'll be able too see what's aviable (there will be far less choice than Hamm, and it's going to be much more expensive ) then i'll make my choice.

Be sure that I'll keep you in touch !

 

[crossmen]

Let me get this straight, you don't even own a corn snake yet :sidestep:

You got it bad and it is only going to get worse!

Well let me welcome you to the addiction :crazy02:

I'll see you at the meetings you'll know me by that look :eek1:

My name is Paul and I'm an addict.

Peace

 

[Kat]

Incidentally, should you decide you need to turn to US breeders to find the morphs you want... Kathy Love at CornUtopia is the person to talk to. She's all set up for it and knows the ins and outs of shipping snakes overseas.

-Kat

 

[Shaky]

What The?

Sulphur is a new one for me.
Have any been produced?

 

[Kat]

Sulfur = Butter bloodred. And as far as I know, very few. I don't know if there are even any adults of the morph yet.

-Kat

 

[Furian]

Let me get this straight, you don't even own a corn snake yet :sidestep:

You got it bad and it is only going to get worse!

Well let me welcome you to the addiction :crazy02:

I'll see you at the meetings you'll know me by that look :eek1:

My name is Paul and I'm an addict.

Peace

ROFL

I guess there'll be a lot of addict with that look over there
I haven't got a cornsnake yet but I've read enough thing about them to write a thesis

. And I loved every single word I read so far ! (that's a lot of words)

thanks for the warm welcome ! :cheers:

About the sulfur, I was too wondering what phase this could be, thanks for the info !

I've seen the Kathy Love website but based on my experience on previous website, I didn't even try to look if she shipped in europe. Any way shipping fee are pretty sure to be quite astronomic, i'll give it a look =)

well, i'm repeating myself but... you guys rocks !

 

[Jynx]

There are a few out there...

**NOTE** These pics are taken off of www.kornatterlexikon.com and do not belong to me. I do own a few different hets for Sulfur, but none that express the trait homozygously.

These are two young adult Sulfurs. With a diffuse pattern, what you start with in a hatchling, and what the finished adult product looks like are 2 different things. Ground colors bleed into saddle colors, more bold bright colors develope, and the objective is to get a uniformly colored snake. The only problem is the variety. Some can be more uniformly colored than others. The older the snake, the farther along the "transformation."

 

[Jynx]

To give you an idea...

I have yet to find a better diffuse (Bloodred) line than Don's over at South Mountain Reptiles, so I will use his comparison photos... just to give you the best idea. This pic is directly off his site as well. IMO, that big red beauty you posted earlier is perfection in a Bloodred form. I can't speak for anyone else, but that is what I am striving to recreate with my bloodreds.