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Help! Male mice keep dieing!!
- Thread starter saphire884
- Start date
medusacoils
Mr. Enigma!
Introducing new male mice is very challenging. Most of the time, it doesn't work. What we will some times do is if one of the females in the colony is preggers, then we will keep babies until they get big enough to determine sex. One or more of the males will be kept with the colony. The dominant male stays, the other is culled off.
We only do this if it's a young colony. The females almost never have a problem with a male that was born into the colony. If none of the females are pregnant, then we don't bother trying to play musical mice. They are culled off and a new colony is introduced into the tank, once it's cleaned.
Wayne
We only do this if it's a young colony. The females almost never have a problem with a male that was born into the colony. If none of the females are pregnant, then we don't bother trying to play musical mice. They are culled off and a new colony is introduced into the tank, once it's cleaned.
Wayne
Raptor
The goat ate my homework
See, I've done this with older females that's had babies before without any issue. I had a male that had fertility issues. He'd breed, breed, breed, but only had two litters to show for it. I pulled him out and dropped another male right in. No cleaning, nothing. The girls didn't do a thing. The only thing that happened was him chasing them around trying to sniff under their tails.
I'd say you were pretty lucky... and I wouldn't advise anyone to take your experience and expect to have the same results. It's like saying, "it's okay to cross a busy street blindfolded because I did it and didn't get run over". Of course it's not that extreme, but you get the idea of what I'm saying from the analogy I hope.
When I had mice I ended up needing new mice, I didn't want to cull (I had culled the one aggressive, baby-killing female and felt so bad I couldn't do it again) so I cleaned the cage and dabbed vanilla on every mouse's nose, even the new one. I think I was lucky none of the new ones were killed, though the new mice never really seemed to fit in. The one smallest female was always being picked on. She eventually died, though of sickness or mouse murder I don't know.
That's why I think it's more humane to start fresh (and why I don't bred my own feeders), even if you have to buy all new mice. The mice I bought were only a couple bucks each. Sure over time that adds up, but if you can get at least one or two litters eventually you can use them to start new colonies.
When I had mice I ended up needing new mice, I didn't want to cull (I had culled the one aggressive, baby-killing female and felt so bad I couldn't do it again) so I cleaned the cage and dabbed vanilla on every mouse's nose, even the new one. I think I was lucky none of the new ones were killed, though the new mice never really seemed to fit in. The one smallest female was always being picked on. She eventually died, though of sickness or mouse murder I don't know.
That's why I think it's more humane to start fresh (and why I don't bred my own feeders), even if you have to buy all new mice. The mice I bought were only a couple bucks each. Sure over time that adds up, but if you can get at least one or two litters eventually you can use them to start new colonies.
Raptor
The goat ate my homework
Females are different. They tend to be more aggressive, I've noticed. If I'm putting new females in, I always clean the tank. Although, last time I had the new females in a critter keeper and put the keeper in the tank. Let that stay for about 15 minutes. The older mice climbed around on the keeper and when I released the new ones, there wasn't any fighting. I was fairly surprised by that. There's no fighting, they nest together, and they groom each other.
Tara80
ACR Breeder # 787
Aye, it sounds like you do it about the same way that I do. It's very easy if you do it correctly. I prefer to have good known breeders pumping out babies than culling them and starting over with unknown (possibly baby eating or non fertile) females just because a male dies, and all you have to do is clean or change the tank during re-introduction. Not difficult and it makes sense to me. The main local breeder that I get some of my stock from here does exactly the same thing, has 100% success rate and has a full supply of babies all the time.
Tara80
ACR Breeder # 787
I did forget about #8, it is the most valid reason of all. :grin01:
medusacoils
Mr. Enigma!
100%!!! WOW That's absolutely amazing!! My wife and I have been breeding rodents for close to 17 years. We raise all different kinds from Gerbils, Mice, Rats, Hamsters, etc. We raise them for feeders, show, pets, etc. I don't think we have been able to get anything close to 100%.
Maybe we're in the wrong business?? :dunce:
Wayne
Tara80
ACR Breeder # 787
My wife and I have been breeding rodents for close to 17 years. We raise all different kinds from Gerbils, Mice, Rats, Hamsters, etc. We raise them for feeders, show, pets, etc. I don't think we have been able to get anything close to 100%.
Maybe we're in the wrong business?? :dunce:
Wayne
Well, granted nothing is ever 100%. But she (the breeder) swapped over FROM colony culling to this method about a year ago and said that she has yet to lose any colony member due to mousie territorialism (notice the 'yet'). This is what convinced me to try this method, when I kept colonies as well (as described earlier in this thread). It's been about 3 months now and I too have yet to lose any mouse due to violence (I guess that would 100% success so far). The only deaths I've had since then have been due to me culling baby killers and one small colony suffocating due to too few breathing holes (lesson learned for me there) Not very long, but I do not at all foresee it changing as it seems to be pretty consistent and I just added another 5 females and 2 males this last weekend (about to add another 10 I am picking up from the breeder tonight).
medusacoils
Mr. Enigma!
I get it! It's a great method, if it works. Christine and I, care for hundreds of rodents. I think we have over 350 at this time. We have tried many different things to get them to come together, from scenting with food extracts, dusting, splitting, starting up new, switching tanks and many more tactics. Switching tanks some times gets them used to the scents of the other animals. Regardless of what you do, we haven't found anything that is 100%.
In our experience, we have found that if you have a well established breeding colony, some times it's better to cull them as feeders. Trying to get them to establish with a new male, will some times take longer then creating a new colony with young mice.
I'm not saying that it can't be done. Anything is possible, especially when you have a docile group.
Wayne
I have introduced males to females before with no problem. It's weird that so many have problems. I clean the tub throw in the noobie first and start adding the girls. The male usually just starts trying to breed. Maybe I am just lucky? :shrugs: I don't introduce him to pregnant females though. I do have issues if I add a female however. If I have a few tubs I need to introduce noobies to I just take all the mice that need new ones and dump them into a big tub. I then mix them all up so everyone is new to each other and they are good to go. There is a little fighting until they find the pecking order. I don't know if this matters but all my mice are pretty young. I cull at about 6 or 7 months.
carnivorouszoo
Crazy Critter Lady
Wow, knocking off entire colonies because one dies. I'd never do it. If a mouse dies I replace it with a baby from one of the established. If it is born and raised there it doesn't need to be accepted because it was accepted when it was allowed to live after birth. I also expand colonies by growing out female babies. I start each colony with a 1:2 ratio male to female. Mind I only manage one colony at a time.
saphire884
New member
Wow! So I never realized how popular this thread would get! ) It seems everyone has had good and/or bad experience with this. New update... So I put the two males in 2 or 3 days ago and everything is going great. To be honest I figgured one would get beat up on and then I would have to take him out and maybe start a new colony with him, but to be honest it's all love and peace with them. I have a 2:4 ratio and it seems the bigger male is content with chillin with the two bigger females and the smaller male is with the two smaller females, but I also see them switch sometimes too with no problems. I.e. the bigger male was snuggling with a smaller female and the smaller male was in a hide box with one of the bigger females. This morning ALL 6 of them were snuggling in their burrowing maze box. It was really cute! I think maybe before the ratio was 4 against one male and they ganged up on him ( or he just died cause he was sick) but with two males they all seem to be happy. What should I do, leave everyone be while they are not fighting and happy, or take out the smaller male and two smaller females now to start a second colony. I just feel a little bad about that since all the females seem to love eachother and as long as they are all still mating and not hurting each other I feel like I should just leave them be. The thing is I got most of the mice at one store so for all I know they are siblings and will be fine staying together. What do you think? Also how can you tell if a female is in heat?
Thanks!
) It seems everyone has had good and/or bad experience with this. New update... So I put the two males in 2 or 3 days ago and everything is going great. To be honest I figgured one would get beat up on and then I would have to take him out and maybe start a new colony with him, but to be honest it's all love and peace with them. I have a 2:4 ratio and it seems the bigger male is content with chillin with the two bigger females and the smaller male is with the two smaller females, but I also see them switch sometimes too with no problems. I.e. the bigger male was snuggling with a smaller female and the smaller male was in a hide box with one of the bigger females. This morning ALL 6 of them were snuggling in their burrowing maze box. It was really cute! I think maybe before the ratio was 4 against one male and they ganged up on him ( or he just died cause he was sick) but with two males they all seem to be happy. What should I do, leave everyone be while they are not fighting and happy, or take out the smaller male and two smaller females now to start a second colony. I just feel a little bad about that since all the females seem to love eachother and as long as they are all still mating and not hurting each other I feel like I should just leave them be. The thing is I got most of the mice at one store so for all I know they are siblings and will be fine staying together. What do you think? Also how can you tell if a female is in heat?Thanks!