Help please with an ID......

[Gronk]

Hi folks...

I bought this big guy a few years back and have bred him to 2 of my females this year. It's his first year breeding, and he took to it like a champ (smile). He's got great size and has a hearty appetite.

My problem is...I'm not 100% sure what he is. I bought him as a Pink Hurricane Anery Motley. He has the Hurricane Motley part down...but his coloration has me thrown. A lot of his body is a slate grey color...but he has a really beautiful kind of peachie orange on his top and along the edges of his bottom.In person the peach does have a pink tint to it. He has a white belly..no checkering.

I thought he might have been some type of Pastel Motley...but he's got way too much grey in him from what I know of Pastels. Any input would be appreciated. No matter what he is, he's one of my favorites in my collection (Grin).

Thanks much ! Pics below...

 

[Joejr14]

I would say he's an anery motley.

What did you breed him to this year? That will give you a better idea if you bred him to something carrying the anery gene.

Pastel usually implies that hypo is involved, and I'd be very surprised if your snake was homozygous for hypo, so my guess would be anery mot.

 

[Gronk]

Joe..

Unfortunately I didn't have an anery female available. I bred him to a Lavander and (don't laugh)...a pretty Amel Aztec. My Wife teases me that my end goal is to take morphs and produce...Normals (Grin).

Seriously, this is only the second year I've attempted breeding. First year was a pair of Normals and all went real well. So as my Avatar tag line says...
Always learning (smile).

 

[cka]

Thats a real nice looking snake there, Mike...the anery motley X amel aztec sounds like a real winner to me; normals het snow and motley with an aztec influence...Hold back a few babies to breed out the aztec and motley traits and see if and how they work in tandem to influence pattern...plus a clutch of lavender anery A motley hets ain't too shabby either lol...Sounds like fun :*)

 

[Gronk]

Chris..

Thanks

I got him and the Amel Aztec from Michelle Heart a couple years ago. The Amel is a stunner..her colors and pattern are gorgeous !

 

[Joejr14]

Joe..

Unfortunately I didn't have an anery female available. I bred him to a Lavander and (don't laugh)...a pretty Amel Aztec. My Wife teases me that my end goal is to take morphs and produce...Normals (Grin).

Seriously, this is only the second year I've attempted breeding. First year was a pair of Normals and all went real well. So as my Avatar tag line says...
Always learning (smile).

Well it seems like someone needs to acquire a homozygous anery female before next year!

If you paired him up with a pastel motley female you'd get anery motleys het hypo, if you paired him up with a snow you'd get anerys het amel motley, etc etc.

I'm sure you could trade some of those babies off for an adult or close to it. Either way, you shouldn't have a problem selling the anery/lav hets.

 

[Joejr14]

Chris..

Thanks

I got him and the Amel Aztec from Michelle Heart a couple years ago. The Amel is a stunner..her colors and pattern are gorgeous !

Hey who knows, maybe your anery is het for amel and your amel is het for anery. Doesn't hurt to hope, right?

 

[Jynx]

he very well may be considered a pastel mot. If I saw any old hypo anery motley, I'd just call it a ghost motley. Pastel is more a selectively bred variation of anery...more peachy/pink/lavender "pastel" colors. It CAN also be homozygous for hypo, but it doesn't neccesarily HAVE to be. Gronk, I think your male would qualify as a pastel motley, and since that what you bought him as, I would probably stick with that.

 

[CornCrazy]

My understanding is that a "pastel" is supposed to be homozygous for hypo. If his snake is not homozygous hypo, then it is not a pastel. I have a female that is very similar to yours. I also bought mine as a pastel motley. I bred her to a ghost this season to see if she is indeed hypo. If not, then I will simply label her as an anery hurricane motley. Here is a picture of her:

My girl is not quite a peach colored as your male...

 

[Jynx]

Well, its at the point where there are so many different opinions about it, (what is SHOULD be and what it IS) I believe its the same argument as the sunglow. Its suppossed to be homo amel and hypo, but to me any amel with ZERO white is a sunglow. I think there's also a few more than that as well, such as the selectively bred bloodred variation and the diffusion trait which most of us call bloodred. If it has the phenotype of a pastel, then the genotype doesn't really matter to me unless the genetics are that crucial in breeding, and you would need both traits.

 

[Jynx]

now this has sparked an interest to see what everyone's opinions are... If you're out there, what GENOTYPE do you consider a pastel and a sunglow? Does it even matter to you? I would also throw bloodred in here as well, but most of us are pretty used to hearing "bloodred" and thinking "diffusion" (even Serp, who has fought tooth and nail and has either given up or just doesn't care anymore) I'm very interested to see how many different responses everyone has, and finally get a RIGHT answer since there are so many different explanations for these morphs. (or as close to right as we can get)

 

[Joejr14]

Well, its at the point where there are so many different opinions about it, (what is SHOULD be and what it IS) I believe its the same argument as the sunglow. Its suppossed to be homo amel and hypo, but to me any amel with ZERO white is a sunglow. I think there's also a few more than that as well, such as the selectively bred bloodred variation and the diffusion trait which most of us call bloodred. If it has the phenotype of a pastel, then the genotype doesn't really matter to me unless the genetics are that crucial in breeding, and you would need both traits.

No no no no no.

A sunglow is an amel with little or no white. Being a sunglow has <b>nothing</b> to do with said snake being homozygous for hypo.

Pastel, on the other hand, is normally associated with ghost motleys that are peachish. To me, being a 'pastel' implies homozygous for hypo.

 

[Taceas]

I bought this girl as a Pastel Motley..

She does have somewhat of a pinkish-purple tone to her that I CANNOT get to show up in pictures whatsoever. But not overflowing with color like one would expect from the name, Pastel Motley.

The male she was bought with was also a Pastel Motley, and from what the person I bought my female from has said, he was the most intense pink and purple for a Pastel Mot she's ever seen. And I have little reason to doubt her accuracy as far as this female is concerned. Unfortunately I don't have any hypo males to test her out on, and this year she was bred to a Lavender het Amel male for ****s 'n giggles, but only 3 viable eggs. :shrugs:

But...from what I understand, male Pastel Motley's show a lot more pastel tones to them than the females do. Same thing with male Hypo Lavs or what have you, something about the 'Y' chromosome having an enhanceing effect (and yes I know snakes aren't X & Y, just said to illustrate a point).

To me, a Pastel Motley is the same thing as a Ghost Motley, just has more of a pink effect to it. The names mean literally a Hypo-Anery A-Motley animal. If its got the genes that fit and the color that matches, call it a Pastel if ya want to. =)

Btw, Sunglow to me means an Amelanistic with no white showing on the dorsum. Whoever decided to add in hypo to the mix and call it a Sunglow needs to pic a different name. Names are there for a reason and 99% of cornsnakers agree with the Only-Amelansistic ascertion.

 

[CornCrazy]

I honestly think that calling someting by a name because it LOOKS like that genotype is a BIG mistake. That is why I think it would be awesome to have standardized (published) genotypes/names. There should be a definite list with what makes up each "morph." I think would make things MUCH less confusing.

I personally think of a sunglow as being an amel with no white (except for on it's belly). A sunglow that is also homozygous hypo should simply be a hypo sunglow.

A pastel to me, on the other hand, is a hypo ghost (motley, stripe, or normal pattern).

 

[Shep151]

My understanding is that a "pastel" is supposed to be homozygous for hypo. If his snake is not homozygous hypo, then it is not a pastel.

I totally agree. I have a pair of Anerys I bought as "het Pastel Motley". Well, 27 babies later, no Ghosties. So NOT het Pastel, IMO. It's quite frustrating, the multiple meanings we have for the same terms. :twoguns:
But, that being said, the snake in question LOOKS like a PM to me, but only breeding trials will tell for sure

 

[Gronk]

Terri...

Our 2 snakes would make some pretty babies, wouldn't they ? (smile)

Thanks all for your responses ! I actually have a pair of '03 Pastel Motleys I got from Kat Hall...but in coloration they are way different than this guy. Another reason for my confusion (Grin).

I do understand that the colors simply do not make a Corn a particular morph. I'm still not all that great with genetics though...sigh. I picked up Serp's 2005 book...I'm just going to have to learn (smile). My wife has more of a talent for it.. "Oh Honey...Help!" lol !

Again..I really appreciate all your input :cheers:

 

[CornCrazy]

Yes Mike, they would make gorgeous babies!

Too bad you guys live so far away

 

[Susan]

The term "pastel" does, unfortunately, mean different things to different people, which is why I agree with what Serp has written in his book...always check with the breeder to find out what the BREEDER is defining "pastel" as.

Personally, in the past, I've always considered pastel as being associated with hypo (motley doesn't have to be present). HOWEVER, I've been seeing too many very pink anerys lately to have to exclude them from using the term. I would like to start seeing "pastel" being used to describe ANY qualifying anery, whether they are also homo hypo and/or motley or not, just as long as they are FULLY labeled....pastel anery, pastel ghost, pastel anery motley and pastel ghost motley.

Of these 3 examples from my own collection (a ghost motley, a ghost het motley and an anery motley/stripe het ghost), should 1, 2, all, or none be called "pastel"?

 

[CornCrazy]

Just in case you guys didn't see my update in the thread about the male my girl was bred to, I thought I'd post some partial results here...
Their clutch is hatching and I have proven the following:

• The female is het amel, is HET hypo, and MUST be a motley-stripe (there's a ghost stripe in the clutch!)
• The male is het amel
• There is something weird going on, also! I have BOTH stripes and motleys in the clutch (I think). There is a snow with a totally clear belly in the clutch, so barring both of them being het bloodred (which is unlikely) then I don't know what is going on! Supposedly a snake can't be het for both motley and stripe...unless it is a striped-motley. Obviously this guy is NOT a striped motley because there are babies in the clutch that have checkered bellies. :shrugs:

After all of the babies are out, I will post the rest of the results.

 

[Shep151]

Supposedly a snake can't be het for both motley and stripe...unless it is a striped-motley. Obviously this guy is NOT a striped motley because there are babies in the clutch that have checkered bellies.

My Anery het Motley X Anery het Motley clutch results don't support the theory that a snake can only be het Stripe or Motley, either. I didn't get any true Stripes, but I got 7 Striped Motleys and 2 Motleys from the breeding. So I have come to the conclusion that I have no clue how Stripe and Motley interact genetically!!!! :crazy01: