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Help what am I getting

Here's a yellow creamsicle from Don's website...

crye020jn.jpg


And here's a butter...

bu006.jpg


To me, the snake in question looks a lot more like the first snake than the second. Obviously Don and Kathy know a hell of a lot more than me, but when I first saw that picture it screamed creamsicle to me.
 
Joe, we don't always see eye to eye but on this point, I'm 100% with you!

Those photos illustrate the point well.
 
Just make sure you test it to something that isn't het or homo for amel. When you pick up a caramel to test her with, make sure it's not het for amel. That would screw with your results.
 
I love the creamsicle debates. Everone knows what one 'looks' like, yet noone can prove that it is or isn't just by looks. It's very similar to a couple of months ago when Vinman was saying various snakes were hybrids . . . remember?!

D80

PS. Looks like a butter and an amel to me.
 
Drizzt80 said:
I love the creamsicle debates. Everone knows what one 'looks' like, yet noone can prove that it is or isn't just by looks. It's very similar to a couple of months ago when Vinman was saying various snakes were hybrids . . . remember?!

D80

PS. Looks like a butter and an amel to me.
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Thank you for your support!. All the creamsickles that I have seen look orange and all the pics that I have seen of a butter look yellow. So until I prove otherwise by breeding it with a Carmel or whatever would make more butters then I am stuck believing that it is a butter corn and the male I know is an amel since I have one of those already. Thanks for your help.
 
cka said:
Amber, you can always test the "butter" against a caramel or a het caramel...If its a butter you should get caramels/ a mix of caramels and normals respectively, and all normal looking babies if its a creamsicle...If you don't do that, just be honest with any buyers of the hatchlings they produce that the background on the breeders is unknown :*)
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If it is a cream I guess I will know upon breeding. But why wouldn't I just breed it to another butter rather than a Carmel. What difference does it make?
Confused?????
 
You really can't tell what a snake is by looking. We have a Flourescent Orange that was sold as SMR stock and everyone said she looked like a creamsicle. When I posted pics of the male that looks exactly like her that is a Reverse Okeetee from SMR nobody questioned it. It's just one of those things. I would test breed to find out for sure and make sure prospective buyers know about the questionable background.

amber_marshall75 said:
If it is a cream I guess I will know upon breeding. But why wouldn't I just breed it to another butter rather than a Carmel. What difference does it make?
Confused?????
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If you breed your questionable snake to another butter you could produce amels which wouldn't show anything. A creamsicle is an amel hybrid and a butter is an amel caramel. In order to test genes you need something that will only appear for one of them - hence test to a caramel. If you test breed to a butter it would be inconclusive IMO.

~Katie
 
PtDnsr said:
You really can't tell what a snake is by looking. We have a Flourescent Orange that was sold as SMR stock and everyone said she looked like a creamsicle. When I posted pics of the male that looks exactly like her that is a Reverse Okeetee from SMR nobody questioned it. It's just one of those things. I would test breed to find out for sure and make sure prospective buyers know about the questionable background.


If you breed your questionable snake to another butter you could produce amels which wouldn't show anything. A creamsicle is an amel hybrid and a butter is an amel caramel. In order to test genes you need something that will only appear for one of them - hence test to a caramel. If you test breed to a butter it would be inconclusive IMO.

~Katie
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I just haven't found any carmels that are that attractive. Any ideas where I could find a nice one?
 
amber_marshall75 said:
I just haven't found any carmels that are that attractive. Any ideas where I could find a nice one?
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I'm partial to Kathy just because I'm so pleased with the female I got from her. She's also het amel and hypo, but it would still solve the issue.

Pt was right in her answer about why not to breed the snake in question to a butter. Breeding the 'butter/cream' to an amel will give you 100% amels regardless of if the snake is butter or a creamsicle. That's why you want a homo caramel.
 

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amber_marshall75 said:
I just haven't found any carmels that are that attractive. Any ideas where I could find a nice one?
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You could go with an Amber as a choice which is a Hypo Caramel. A bit more yellow poking through and 'brighter' than the Caramel.

D80
 
Just out of curiosity, I adjusted the picture a bit. I used the aspen as a guide and uniformly adjusted the color until the aspen looked fairly normal. The snake does not look like any butter I've ever seen (assuming the colors are correct).
 

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Drizzt80 said:
You could go with an Amber as a choice which is a Hypo Caramel. A bit more yellow poking through and 'brighter' than the Caramel.

D80
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Very good point, D.
 
CornCrazy said:
Just out of curiosity, I adjusted the picture a bit. I used the aspen as a guide and uniformly adjusted the color until the aspen looked fairly normal. The snake does not look like any butter I've ever seen (assuming the colors are correct).
Click to expand...

I did the same thing when this thread was started, Terri. I also did it with the other picture and that's why I went back and re-assesed my comment on the bottom picture.

I understand that both Don and Kathy say it looks like a butter to them, and I've said that I'm not an expert, but I've <b>never</b> seen a butter look like that, and I've seen my fair share of them. To me there is simply too much yellow on that snake for it to be a butter. Who knows, perhaps I'm wrong---it wouldn't be the first time. I hate to disagree with two of the most knowledgeable cornsnake people out there, but it still screams creamsicle to me.

Hey, maybe it's a butter cream!!!
 
I posted this in the other thread so I thought I would add it to this one, as well. And Joe, do you mean it looks too orange? Or yellow?
***************************************************
If it is a cream, then it is NOT a pure corn. Do you have any better pictures of the first one?

It looks too orange to be a butter, in my opinion. Here are some pics of adult butters:
popcorn.jpg

sonny.jpg

popcorn-tongue-7-19-04.jpg


And to stir up some stuff, here is a picture of a female creamsicle:
whistle.jpg

She is a pretty good butter look-a-like, but she is NOT a butter.
 
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amber_marshall75 said:
Any ided wher I could get a nice Amber corn?
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Kathy, Don, Rich, etc etc. Make a wanted post in the appropriate forum here.

You shouldn't have too much trouble getting an older amber male.
 
Don lives in TX. Shipping may be cheaper in state. Or if you live close enough to him, you might be able to pick the snake up (if Don allows that - it won't hurt to ask, though).
 
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