Het. for a selectively bread morph

[Billybobob]

I have seen several post sayin a snake is het for a selectively bred morph (i.e. crimson, candycane, reverse okeetee. ect. ect.). And I was just wondering what other peoples view is on this.

 

[Billybobob]

Wow just noticed my typo in the title.

 

[Roy Munson]

It's more than misleading, it is completely false. The term "heterozygous" has a specific meaning, and it relates only to the condition of a specific genetic mutation at a specific locus. Candycane is the result of who knows how many interacting alleles spread across who knows how many gene loci. The term "heterozygous" can't apply.

 

[Serpwidgets]

I have a problem with it when it is used as "this totally plain normal is het candycane because one it its parents is a candycane." They might as well say it's "double het for mom and dad," or label jungles as "het for kingsnake."

But those same people will often label anything with two candycane parents (no matter what it looks like) as a candycane.

Both are bad usage, IMO.

 

[Billybobob]

Thanks to every one for the responses. The results of my poll are pretty much what i expected. I just wish that the person who bit my head off about this same subject reads this post and realizes the error of his ways. :cheers:

 

[ultimuttone]

I know what post you are referring to. I don't know enough about the genetics to give a qualified vote.
I am curious how these things work, though.
In the progeny program it says that you would list crimson as hypomel. So would offspring be considered het hypomel instead of het crimson? I would appreciate any explanation of how these traits would be listed.Or how they apply.
Thanks.

 

[ultimuttone]

ok I see all the great minds over there, hope you are coming up with something understandable for me .

 

[Billybobob]

I am curious how these things work, though.
In the progeny program it says that you would list crimson as hypomel. So would offspring be considered het hypomel instead of het crimson? I would appreciate any explanation of how these traits would be listed.Or how they apply.
Thanks.

Yes they should be considered het hypo not het crimson. Since a crimson is a selectively bred hypo(from miami lines) any resulting offspring from a crimson to any non-hypo would be norma het hypo. Even if it was a miamiXcrimson i stil would not call it a het crimson but a miami het hypo. Crimsons have a rather distinct look even compared to hypo miamis. Can't remember who said this but i think it gets the point across "All crimsons are hypo miamis but not all hypo miamis are crimsons. hope that helps.

Billybobob

 

[Roy Munson]

I know what post you are referring to. I don't know enough about the genetics to give a qualified vote.
I am curious how these things work, though.
In the progeny program it says that you would list crimson as hypomel. So would offspring be considered het hypomel instead of het crimson? I would appreciate any explanation of how these traits would be listed.Or how they apply.
Thanks.

Crimsons are actually hypomelanistic Miami-Phase corns. Miami-Phase is a look that is selected for; it is not the result of a single mutant gene. Therefore, the offspring of Miami and non-Miami corns cannot be considered het for Miami. By the same token, the offspring of a crimson (hypo-Miami) and a non crimson cannot be considered het for crimson. But they would be het for hypo, because that is a single mutant gene as proven by thousands of breeding trials.

I hope that helps.

 

[ultimuttone]

So a Bloodred x Crimson would give het hypo and bloodred, Miami x Crimson would give het hypo some with/without the Miami look, Crimson x normal would give het hypo? Etc...

 

[Billybobob]

So a Bloodred x Crimson would give het hypo and bloodred, Miami x Crimson would give het hypo some with/without the Miami look, Crimson x normal would give het hypo? Etc...

Most of that is right but i think that a crimsonXmiami would most likely give you what most would call a miami.

 

[ultimuttone]

Thank you both very much.

 

[Serpwidgets]

Wow, there's a crimson gene? Would that be at the crimson locus? Howcome nobody told me about it? :shrugs:

 

[ultimuttone]

Wow, there's a crimson gene? Would that be at the crimson locus? Howcome nobody told me about it? :shrugs:

Those were not the words of wisdom I was hoping for from you, Serp

 

[Billybobob]

Wow, there's a crimson gene? Would that be at the crimson locus? Howcome nobody told me about it? :shrugs:

Guess you saw the post I was referring to. I tried to explain to that guy that it was a selectively bred hypo but he just kept telling me that it works like a gene. Some people just don't get it. :shrugs:

 

[magick-bears]

Though I do not like the term "het for" used when it comes to line bred traits I think that there is any way to stop it. It is also difficult to try and convince a hobby breeder or small breeder that they are wrong when they see some of the larger more respected breeders doing it on their web sites. In fact I just recently had to ask a highly respected breeder what was meant by het for Creamsicle Okeetee. The reply was a very logical one but IMO still could be misleading to those that don't know to ask before buying.

Just my $0.03
~Jeff C.

 

[Billybobob]

Just my $0.03

Is the extra cent your way of adjusting for inflasion?
:grin01:

 

[magick-bears]

Is the extra cent your way of adjusting for inflasion?
:grin01:

I prefer to think of it as a cost of living adjustment.

~Jeff C.

 

[Billybobob]

Though I do not like the term "het for" used when it comes to line bred traits I think that there is any way to stop it. It is also difficult to try and convince a hobby breeder or small breeder that they are wrong when they see some of the larger more respected breeders doing it on their web sites. In fact I just recently had to ask a highly respected breeder what was meant by het for Creamsicle Okeetee. The reply was a very logical one but IMO still could be misleading to those that don't know to ask before buying.

I see your point but I think that if more people understood genetics they would realize how wrong they are for labeling their snakes that way.

 

[Menhir]

I think it's misleading although it can be "not wrong" in some cases. Let's take that Crimson Example. If you breed a Crimson to a Miami, you can expect Miamis het. Hypo - if you use het. Crimson instead of Hypo, it wouldn't be COMPLETELY WRONG. But, that's just true for the case, that the buyer knows what is a selectivly bred morph and what is a genetically morph.
So, I klicked "misleading" and I prefer the genetically trait myself and add "from Silverqueen line" or "from Sunglow line" if people are interested if selectivly bred morphs are somehow involved.