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Hey Rich, hypo lavendar, opinion??

Kestrel

New member
Ok.. This is supposed to be a hypo lavendar. I replied to this person's add to buy it, and he finally has taken photos of it for me. This does NOT look like a hypo lavender to me. What the heck is it? It looks like either a ghost, or a dark normal lavendar...

Edit: Ok Don Soderburge emailed me back and said that he remembered selling this snake and that it was indeed a hypo lavendar, and supposedly from his best and most colorful pair. LOL. PHEW!

42962LavenderHypo,F3353BW.jpg
 
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The photo makes it look charcoalish. (Yeah, I know, I'm not Rich. ;))
-Kat
 
Kat said:
The photo makes it look charcoalish. (Yeah, I know, I'm not Rich. ;))
-Kat

LOL anyones opinion is welcome.. I thought pewter too.. The guy said it was "In with some pewters", so it very well could be.. but the pattern looks wrong for a pewter.
 
here is a lavender i got from rich for comparison....i played with the photo to try and brighten it so i hope it comes out accurate on your end.
 

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here is a diff one

here is a diff lav
 

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If Don sold that snake as a hypo lav to Blue Ribbon Herps, then I would have to believe him. But it does look more like a ghost. It's very dark for a hypo.
 
I have no trouble vouching for Bill

Bill at Blue Ribbon is a real stand-up guy. He is a good source for great animals that are exactly as represented. If he says it is a Hypo Lav then it is.
 
might simply be photo quality

i am no pro photo editor but i tried to lighten it up for ya...
 

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I'd have to say that the original photo does leave room for doubt about what morph is pictured... the edited photo is just that, edited... What you need is a definitive photo in good lighting that shows the true color of the snake.

-Kat
 
Pandora Lavender

This looks like a Pandora Box Lavender to me. I personally would not buy a Hypo Lav that did not look like a "Cotton Candy" Lav. What is the point. These kind look like lavenders. I have seen lav that are lighter.

I can not possibly imagine how this snake and a Cotton Candy type Hypo Lav can be called the same thing. I suspect that it is a Lav het hypo.

The term hypomelanistic can be interpreted differently, but a light phase is not hypo to me.

I have talked to a lot of people who have a male Cotton Candy type hypo lav and a female that looks like a lav and not a hypo.

I do not believe that males corns are nicer than female corns.

Pandora's box is open and it can not be shut. The cause is understandable. Where do we go from here? Perhaps for those who care, hypo lav should be independently created with one of the know hypo genes, type a, type b or type c.

Has anybody started a Lav X Sunkissed hypo project yet?
 

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There is no anwser to this problem at this point. What I do is to label the animals when they are newly hatched babies. Say for instance, if I breed a Hypo Lavender to a Lavender het for Hypo, any of the standout lighter colored babies are labeled as "Hypo Lavenders". Now anyone who has hatched out hypos knows that in a clutch of babies, the Hypos will stand out like sore thumbs. No doubt at all about which is which in that clutch.

But as they mature (and this is true in ANY line that Hypomelanism will be bred into) it is very common for some hypos to turn darker, and some non-hypos to get lighter. That is why I label them when they are newly hatched babies. Because later on, you just may not be able to tell the difference.

So yes, I have seen Hypo Lavenders definitely turn darker and some regular Lavenders definitely turn lighter. Matter of fact, I have several cases of my adults where some of the normal Lavenders are much brighter than some of the Hypo Lavenders. In many instances, those lighter colored "normal" Lavenders came from blood lines with no trace of Hypomelanism in their ancestry at all. This is just par for the course and I really don't even lose much sleep over it any longer.

As far as my looking at a photo of someone elses animal and being asked to make a determination about what it is, sorry, but no. I am not going to go out on a limb and do that. I have animals of my own hatching out every year with a fairly well documented genetic history that I don't have a clue about what they really are. So I certainly am not going to bring someone elses integrity into question by taking a shot in the dark guess at what something is or is not.

One aside about the Hypo Lavenders, though: For the first couple of years I produced them, I was becoming convinced that there must be something sex linked in that combination, since I was only getting male Hypo Lavenders. Then finally I got one or two females, then more of them as a couple more years of breeding them got under my belt. But in nearly all cases, the males were much lighter than any of the females. Finally this past year (2003), I have gotten some females that appear that they will rival any of the best males I have ever produced. Of course, they are all keepers, but at least at this point I know that it is possible to produce some stunner female Hypo Lavenders. What they will turn out looking like as full adults is another issue that I will address in a couple of years, I guess. Plus I must confess that I am really not looking forward to seeing the result when I breed these killer females with my killer males. Something just tells me that I won't get what logic would predict.

Of course, there is always the spectre of multiple hypo genes being in the Lavender line, which could certainly throw more wrinkles into the mess. But at this point the only defense I have against a situation that will drive me insane is to just shrug my shoulders and accept it as it is and go on.
 
I agree with Joe...
If I was going to purchase a hypo lavender, I would want a "cotton candy" one. Here are a couple of pictures of a male hypo lavender I have. The pictures aren't the best...he never wants to be still.
Drake-2-5-04.jpg


Drake-2-5-04b.jpg


This guy was a non-feeder I adopted so he is still on the small side even though he is about 6 months old now. By the way, he just ate a couple of pinks today...as if you couldn't tell. He is now eating unscented VERY regularly!

I am not saying that the snake pictured isn't a hypo lavender. I'm just saying that I personally like the lighter colored ones better.

I also agree with what Rich said...sometimes when a snake matures, you can't tell what it really is. I have a perfect example of this. I bought a ghost motley from a very reputable breeder. The snake's parents were both ghosts...my ghost motley is darker than some of the anerys I own. Here is a picture of her:
pastel-motley-7-10-03.jpg
 
Cough, Cough

Mine are still in hibernation. I am still not sure what to breed my lonely Sunkissed female to since I don't have a compatable male. Lav X Sunkissed had crossed my mind. Okeetee X Sunkissed is also a poss. Amel Bloodred X Sunkissed. Now that sounds good too!

That Ghost could be a result of Pandora's box as well. In stead of labling the original Hypo Lav in question here a Pandora Lavender, perhaps I could have said, Pandora's box of Hypos.

It is very possible to bred two hypo lav together and not get any hypo lavs or only a few. The same could be true if you breed two Ghost together, whether or not the breeder is reputable or not. If the exact hypo gene involved is not known to the breeder, it is very possible these days to breed two morphs created with a "hypo" gene together and not get hypos.

That is why we have three different hypo genes known as Hypo A (Reg), Hypo B, (Sunk) and Hypo C (Lava), they are not compatable.

I suppose that a very light normal phase corn could resemble a very dark Hypo Corn, but considering the effect the hypo has in the Cotton Candy type Hypo Lav, it is hard to imagine a dark Cotton Candy looking like a very light Lav.

I guess this is a case where you should approach this much like the wholesalers do. "I only buy what I see." Meaning hets are worth nothing to them.

When you breed two Cotton Candy Lav together, perhaps you should only sell what you see are Cotton Candies, and the ones that are not obvious, may not be a hypo lav at all. The ones that are the Cotton Candy type, may not produce 100% Cotton Candy offspring.

When there is a break in the chain of possession these days of mutant hypo morphs, perhaps we no longer can assume they are compatable. If you want to make sure your hypo morphs are going to breed true, you must be 100% sure of the hypo gene involved. This may be very difficult to accomplish. If you are buying from someone who purchased the hypo types for resale, you really do not know what you are getting.

The attached Cotton Candy type Hypo Lav, I have labled "hypo genetics unknown", because I really do not know. I know it looks like a Cotton Candy and it is very pretty!
 

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Oh good, more new names!

Pandora Lavs, Cotton Candy Lavs......

This is becoming a slippery slope Joe.
 
The World is waiting

It would be very easy for me to get use to calling a Cotton Candy type Hypo Lav a Cotton Candy Lav. Hypo Lav is out dated as you can see from this thread. Hypo Lav seems to be used incorrectly very frequently or so it seems.

I for one, vote for Cotton Candy Lavender Corn Snake. It is long, but it flows off of the tongue.
 
Re: Pandora Lavender

Thanks for the reply... I wasn't really asking you to definitively call it one thing or another, just your opinion on the matter, as I imagine you've seen all shades and colors of lavendars, hypos and opals..

According to Don S. This bloodline came directly from you, from a pair that was bought from you as babies a few years ago, so I imagine it'd stick right along with what you said about the females being darker. I also personally don't like the super colored hypos as much as I like the softer pastel greys/whites with a dash of light pink. I'm a subtle color person. lol.

I was greatly reassured when Don told me that he DID produce this snake, remembered it destinctly because it was the best looking female from that clutch, and remembered selling it to Blue Ribbon Herp.
 
That Ghost could be a result of Pandora's box as well.

I dunno. I used to have a ghost that was that dark and yet was hypo A. She produced nothing but ghosts when bred with another hypoA ghost.


I for one, vote for Cotton Candy Lavender Corn Snake. It is long, but it flows off of the tongue.

Joe, if they must be called CCLavs, let's atleast shorten it to Cotton Candy Corns... But I must admit, I still prefer Amethyst to CC.

(Darnit Rich, pick something already! :))

-Kat
 
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