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Hey Rich, hypo lavendar, opinion??
- Thread starter Kestrel
- Start date
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Kestrel
My reference to the "Pandora" Lavenders was because it is highly suspected and very likely that the current hypo Lav that are available have more than one hypo gene mixed it. It is still assumed by many that if they breed their nicest Hypo Lav to a Hypo Lav that all of the offspring are hypo lav. when they are not necessarily. This gets even more confusing when they bred a hypo lav to a lav het hypo. Sometimes, a light lav can be mistaken for a hypo lav.
Look at the first photo I posted. They were both sold as hypo lav., are they? I do not believe so. If I breed them together will I get all hypo lavs, because they were sold to me as hypo lav. I don't believe so.
I would not sell all of the offspring from this pair of hypo lavs as hypo lavs unless they all were of the "Cotton Candy" type, which I doubt, just because they were sold to me as hypo lav, because one of them is not a hypo lav.
I understand that the "Cotton Candy" Corns will vary, but I can not believe they will vary this much. Most of the "Cotton Candy" type hypos that I have seen look simular. The "Pandora Lavs" look exactly like Lavenders to me.
If you do not like the "Cotton Candy" type, may I suggest a nice lavender with pink on it. They are very beautiful and sound like what you are looking for.
I put all of the names I used in qoutes this time. These are just names I am using for examples and perhaps if we tie Rich to a stake he will name the Hypo Lav. He has named almost everything else that he has created.
This is a slippery slope. I don't know if it was the name use or the topic, but Rich has let everybody know that there is a very good chance that more than one hypo gene got mixed into the hypo lavs before he knew it and now it is too late. I suspect that it is more than a good chance or he wouldn't have said it. Rich referred to the hypos as "Pandora's box" and once mixed up it would be almost impossible to fix.
Is anybody listening? Not to me, to Rich. Believe me, Rich will let me have it with both barrels if I stating something that is not likely to be true.
:twoguns:
I ski pretty good, but I still fall down all the time.
My reference to the "Pandora" Lavenders was because it is highly suspected and very likely that the current hypo Lav that are available have more than one hypo gene mixed it. It is still assumed by many that if they breed their nicest Hypo Lav to a Hypo Lav that all of the offspring are hypo lav. when they are not necessarily. This gets even more confusing when they bred a hypo lav to a lav het hypo. Sometimes, a light lav can be mistaken for a hypo lav.
Look at the first photo I posted. They were both sold as hypo lav., are they? I do not believe so. If I breed them together will I get all hypo lavs, because they were sold to me as hypo lav. I don't believe so.
I would not sell all of the offspring from this pair of hypo lavs as hypo lavs unless they all were of the "Cotton Candy" type, which I doubt, just because they were sold to me as hypo lav, because one of them is not a hypo lav.
I understand that the "Cotton Candy" Corns will vary, but I can not believe they will vary this much. Most of the "Cotton Candy" type hypos that I have seen look simular. The "Pandora Lavs" look exactly like Lavenders to me.
If you do not like the "Cotton Candy" type, may I suggest a nice lavender with pink on it. They are very beautiful and sound like what you are looking for.
I put all of the names I used in qoutes this time. These are just names I am using for examples and perhaps if we tie Rich to a stake he will name the Hypo Lav. He has named almost everything else that he has created.
This is a slippery slope. I don't know if it was the name use or the topic, but Rich has let everybody know that there is a very good chance that more than one hypo gene got mixed into the hypo lavs before he knew it and now it is too late. I suspect that it is more than a good chance or he wouldn't have said it. Rich referred to the hypos as "Pandora's box" and once mixed up it would be almost impossible to fix.
Is anybody listening? Not to me, to Rich. Believe me, Rich will let me have it with both barrels if I stating something that is not likely to be true.
:twoguns:
I ski pretty good, but I still fall down all the time.
Personally, if I can come up with a reasonable way to drop the term "Hypomelanism" completely, I will do so. It covers way too many similar looking genetic traits for me to feel comfortable even thinking of that term. It has now become a rather generic term basically meaning a lighter colored cultivar, but not necessarily a reliably identifiable single genetic trait. I would have to say that breeding anything Hypomelanistic to another Hypomelanistic has the potential of producing unpredictable results.
I think the first Hypo Lavenders I produced were back in 1996. Crimsons sometime before that, I believe, and of course Ambers back in 1995 or so. I have had one form of Hypo or another around here since around 1988. Prior to getting those Sunkissed Corns from Kathy (sorry, I don't remember when that was), the only other stock I have added into my colony from anyone which had the likelihood of carrying a Hypomelanistic gene of any sort was the Ultra Hypos from Mike Falcon. And I kept them genetically isolated from everything else except for a test breeding to one of my "regular" Hypos to see if it was the same gene.
Now the weird part about that Ultra Hypo test was that when I bred my one male I had at the time to that regular Hypo female, I got all Hypos, so I just figured it was a slight variation of regular Hypo and didn't think much more about it. Later on I bought another rather pretty Ultra Hypo male from Mike Falcon but only bred him to the only original Ultra Hypo female I had for a few years. Well, last year I bred this Ultra Hypo male to one of my Amber corns, after seeing what the Ultra Hypo line did for the Ambers that Mike Shiver was working with, expecting to get all Hypos het for Caramel. Of course, I got all normal colored snakes out of that clutch. Not a single Hypo at all.
So is this second Ultra Hypo male different genetically from that first Ultra Hypo male I had? Well how could it be since breeding it to that original female (which was a sibling of that original male) has produced all Ultra Hypos? And I had already determined early in the game that Ultra Hypo and regular Hypo were the same gene? The only logical conclusion is that somehow that Amber I used is a different genetic line of Hypo. But as far as I can remember, ALL of my Ambers came from a breeding of my original regular Hypo male to a couple of my Caramel females.
Now I did have another Hypo line crop up in my Miami phase line. Matter of fact, it was from the line that my Silver Queen Ghosts came out of. But again, I test bred this line (I have been referring to them internally as my "Scarlet" Hypos) and all babies came out being regular Hypos. Matter of fact, I have bred regular Ghosts to the Silver Queen Ghosts and gotten all regular looking Ghosts as a result. However, I did breed the Scarlet Hypo line into the Lavenders early on, but as the above results indicate, this SHOULD have still been the same line of Hypo I had been using all along. This is the ONLY instance I can recall where an offshoot line of Hypo, that came from separate stock from my original Hypo male, got bred into the Lavender line. But all indications were that it was the same gene at that time.
See what I mean? This stuff just doesn't make any logical sense at all.
And I was only worried about the Sunkissed line when I discovered it was a new Hypo gene! Little did I realize just how muddy the water had already become. And as has been proven to me (ala a 2x4 smacked into my forehead with the 'A' Anerythrism gene), once you have a gene in your colony for more than a couple of generations or so, you will NEVER be able to get rid of it. Anerythristics pop up in the darndest places these days.
So multiple Hypo genes are here to stay. How many snakes do you think I personally sold over the years before I even had an inkling about this problem? Lots and lots of them.
Anyway, this all is giving me a headache. And now another breeding season is breathing down my neck. I do not have any high hopes of getting answers to the questions, but fully expect to get even more questions as the babies begin hatching.
I think the first Hypo Lavenders I produced were back in 1996. Crimsons sometime before that, I believe, and of course Ambers back in 1995 or so. I have had one form of Hypo or another around here since around 1988. Prior to getting those Sunkissed Corns from Kathy (sorry, I don't remember when that was), the only other stock I have added into my colony from anyone which had the likelihood of carrying a Hypomelanistic gene of any sort was the Ultra Hypos from Mike Falcon. And I kept them genetically isolated from everything else except for a test breeding to one of my "regular" Hypos to see if it was the same gene.
Now the weird part about that Ultra Hypo test was that when I bred my one male I had at the time to that regular Hypo female, I got all Hypos, so I just figured it was a slight variation of regular Hypo and didn't think much more about it. Later on I bought another rather pretty Ultra Hypo male from Mike Falcon but only bred him to the only original Ultra Hypo female I had for a few years. Well, last year I bred this Ultra Hypo male to one of my Amber corns, after seeing what the Ultra Hypo line did for the Ambers that Mike Shiver was working with, expecting to get all Hypos het for Caramel. Of course, I got all normal colored snakes out of that clutch. Not a single Hypo at all.
So is this second Ultra Hypo male different genetically from that first Ultra Hypo male I had? Well how could it be since breeding it to that original female (which was a sibling of that original male) has produced all Ultra Hypos? And I had already determined early in the game that Ultra Hypo and regular Hypo were the same gene? The only logical conclusion is that somehow that Amber I used is a different genetic line of Hypo. But as far as I can remember, ALL of my Ambers came from a breeding of my original regular Hypo male to a couple of my Caramel females.
Now I did have another Hypo line crop up in my Miami phase line. Matter of fact, it was from the line that my Silver Queen Ghosts came out of. But again, I test bred this line (I have been referring to them internally as my "Scarlet" Hypos) and all babies came out being regular Hypos. Matter of fact, I have bred regular Ghosts to the Silver Queen Ghosts and gotten all regular looking Ghosts as a result. However, I did breed the Scarlet Hypo line into the Lavenders early on, but as the above results indicate, this SHOULD have still been the same line of Hypo I had been using all along. This is the ONLY instance I can recall where an offshoot line of Hypo, that came from separate stock from my original Hypo male, got bred into the Lavender line. But all indications were that it was the same gene at that time.
See what I mean? This stuff just doesn't make any logical sense at all.
And I was only worried about the Sunkissed line when I discovered it was a new Hypo gene! Little did I realize just how muddy the water had already become. And as has been proven to me (ala a 2x4 smacked into my forehead with the 'A' Anerythrism gene), once you have a gene in your colony for more than a couple of generations or so, you will NEVER be able to get rid of it. Anerythristics pop up in the darndest places these days.
So multiple Hypo genes are here to stay. How many snakes do you think I personally sold over the years before I even had an inkling about this problem? Lots and lots of them.
Anyway, this all is giving me a headache. And now another breeding season is breathing down my neck. I do not have any high hopes of getting answers to the questions, but fully expect to get even more questions as the babies begin hatching.
mike panic
New member
Im not great with genetics but Im
fairly confident the male Hypo Lavender I got from Rich a few years ago is somehow different. Here are some shots of the adult pair and the Hypos and "cotton candy Lavenders" that I hatched out from them. I have to agree with Joe that they appear to look like cotton candy. These seem different than other "hypo Lavenders" that I have seen. Even others from Rich dont look quite the same to me and I have seen enough of them now to suspect that they are somehow different. I have soom others(hypo lavs) from Rich's stock that just dont look the same. The adult male is almost opague looking after a new shed and is a very odd color. He has the pink all the way down his body although it doesnt show well in photos. I will start with him. I just took him out of brumation so these are recent shots. As in five minutes ago,LOL. I hope you can see that the adult Hypo Lavender is different. Thanks
fairly confident the male Hypo Lavender I got from Rich a few years ago is somehow different. Here are some shots of the adult pair and the Hypos and "cotton candy Lavenders" that I hatched out from them. I have to agree with Joe that they appear to look like cotton candy. These seem different than other "hypo Lavenders" that I have seen. Even others from Rich dont look quite the same to me and I have seen enough of them now to suspect that they are somehow different. I have soom others(hypo lavs) from Rich's stock that just dont look the same. The adult male is almost opague looking after a new shed and is a very odd color. He has the pink all the way down his body although it doesnt show well in photos. I will start with him. I just took him out of brumation so these are recent shots. As in five minutes ago,LOL. I hope you can see that the adult Hypo Lavender is different. Thanks
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Kat..........
the Hypo Lavender adult in the first photos are the father of the pair I am sending you. I bred him to the snow stripe female that you already have and their babies are the pair I am sending you. The cotton candy lavenders and the Hypo het for lavenders are half brothers and sisters of the pair I am sending you. Same dad, different mother. Thanks.
the Hypo Lavender adult in the first photos are the father of the pair I am sending you. I bred him to the snow stripe female that you already have and their babies are the pair I am sending you. The cotton candy lavenders and the Hypo het for lavenders are half brothers and sisters of the pair I am sending you. Same dad, different mother. Thanks.
Serpwidgets
New member
Re: Pandora Lavender
Can it happen in corns? Check out Don's Anery Bloodreds. He's got some kind of sexlinked "pink" thing going on with them. It's not in all anery bloods though, just his lines as far as I know.
I agree.ecreipeoj said:
Since the sex in corns is determined by a sex chromosome, males and females have different chromosomes. There are lots of traits that are sex-linked, including red/green color blindness in male humans. Also, look at male/female birds, and I believe it's like that with many reptiles too. So the precedent exists, anyway.
Can it happen in corns? Check out Don's Anery Bloodreds. He's got some kind of sexlinked "pink" thing going on with them. It's not in all anery bloods though, just his lines as far as I know.
We don't have confirmed breeding yet, but we've been trying my lav male with my sunkissed female this year.