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Housing snakes together - my very, very long opinion

Packerfan4 said:
IS THERE ANYBODY THAT BELONGS TO THE FORUMS THAT HAS HAD A PROBLEM KEPPING CORNS TOGETHER???
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I used to keep 2 in the same viv they didn't try to cannibalize each other, but I had other problems like regurges, refusing to eat, and unexpectedly laying eggs after turning out to be a male and a female, it was before I found these forums or knew any better
 
i sjut ment i have no problem with it there has never been anyproblem with my snakes that i have together. i was sjut saying i was suprised that kathy love posted on this forum jump kinda amused i didnt mean anything other that that and i still agree with Cornman strongly :flames:
 
cka said:
...and I thought i was the master of the "probably, you should or could, IMHO", etc...Corns are far and away the best snake to "experiment" with....feeding in the enclosure/out of the enclosure, housing separate or together, Okeetee phase vs. Okeetee locality (had to throw this one in :crazy02: )....Don't be afraid to try something a little against the grain in the interest of finding out what works for you...And when someone drops a thread to talk about it or question it don't jump right in to smash it just because it goes against the Edicts of the Troika...what works for them may not work for you, and they'll be the first to go "well, I usually do this ..." peace folks
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I agree. I bought my corn as a starter snake because I was planning on getting a bp, but have no experience with snakes. I was told corn snakes are the prerfect snake for a beginner, and so my little guy came home with me, and I quickly fell in love.

I don't plan on getting any other corn snakes (not really a fan of them), but I really do enjoy my little guy and so I stay here and give advice when I can, based on what I hear others say. And I too am very careful about saying "never". And although I've been known to say it (a lot), there are always exceptions to the rule. I will say "NEVER house two snakes together", but I'm still careful to back it up with "you may not have any problems, but these are the risks". "Never" is my opinion and "these facts" are what they are based on.

It's a fine line, but unfortunately because I don't own the CSM, I've been called hypocritical for offering advice that the book gives (again... not quoting the book, just giving advice based on what I've learned that is IN the book). I remember cornman's reference to the manual (regarding two being housed together) and people claiming he misquoted Kathy.

I stay out of that completely, but "this" is what I learned and "this" is what I believe is best for the care of "my" snake. Take that advice for what you will.

And for the record, I don't think two corns should ever be housed together. Like Kathy said (and I quote)
If you follow these instructions, you will often be able to EVENTUALLY keep 2 or 3 together once they are well acclimated.
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She may be right in that you may never have problems if you follow her instructions, but the emphasis on that quote is still "often". Though mininal, the risk remains. And in my opinion, it's a silly argument to begin with. :rolleyes:
 
It helps a lot to be able to "read" them. Newbies are not familiar with their language, or the subtle signs of stress.
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= Serpwidgets

-I may only be 17 but i got my first corn when i was 3 so i dont think that i really hav a problem "Reading them". and ya i do hav other things on my mind because im youg Fooball being the main one but when it comes to snakes and reptiles in general i think i hav a slight idea of what im doing. so maybe u should shut ur mout.
 
Woah, DEFENSE! Not that I need to stand up for Serp or anything, but who the hell are you? :laugh: You're obviously new HERE...

Oh yeah, and welcome. :)
 
I think it's a matter of having your own opinion. I thought Kathy did an admirable job of posting both pros and cons of housing together. She didn't say you couldn't, she just said in most cases she wouldn't. She also pointed out that beginners might often have a difficult time figuring out a stressed snake. Look at the difficulty people have just treating one snake for regurge! I don't think that cannabilism is a huge problem, but I do think that disease spread, and stress could be. It's hard enough to stop R.I.'s from spreading thru a collection even when seperated by different containers. You could probably guarantee that all animals housed in the same viv will become ill. I couldn't afford to lose my snakes because of that. If I thought snakes suffered from loneliness, it would be different. According to most of the info I've read, corns are mostly solitary in the wild. They don't want companionship. Yes, in the pet store, they're all piled together. They are also usually very small, and there's almost never enough hides. I would expect them to kind of be together to benefit from the "maybe the other guy will get it first" syndrome. If you want to house together. Do it. If you don't. Don't. Just know all the thoughts either way before you decide that only one person's ideas are written in stone. I would also value the opinion of someone like Kathy, or Rich who have literally thousands of corns, over someone who has even 20. They have huge numbers of snakes that they can see how they react to each other, and experience the bad things so they can pass that info on to the rest of us. Anyway. Enough said.....I'm off my soap box now.
 
Whats going on here?

Packerfan4 First off whatever exeriences you got when you were 3 mean absolutly nothing now. Im sure you were very good at such responsibilities at the ripe old age of 3. If you want to house your snakes together thats fine with me. Nothing I would practice in our house though. Yes we do have more than one.
My wife and I have been keeping snakes for just over a year now. And I have learned a lot in that year. I have also gotten to know some of the people on this board rather well. Someone with 12 posts attacking some one like Serp is just childish and irresponsible. He was not attacking you personally. Im sure I will be the target of your next temper tantrum as being 17 you know it all anyway. Just my 2 cents now Ill sit back and wait for Serps reply
Joker :twoguns:
 
Oh dear. Now it seems that both "sides" of the discussion are convinced that Kathy supports their particular view! This could run and run....

How about this suggestion:
Whenever anybody comes here to ask if they can keep Corns together, we just hold off on the flamewars, post a link to Kathy's post on this thread and let them decide from that?

It's not about stifling discussion, because let's face it, we've discussed this in increasingly unpleasant circles for months now and we just start on each other all over again whenever somebody new raises the subject. It'd be nice to see a sort of "agree to disagree" detante reached and Kathy's post is the most balanced view I've seen yet, presenting both pros and cons without being dogmatic about either.

How about it?
 
Im with kel, after following this "disagreement" since joining, let's just agre to disagree and and if possible post Kathy's thoughts on the homepage and lock it (if that can be done?), so people can then make up their oun minds and stop all the petty squabbling on the subject.
Is that not a good idea?
 
forgot to say, i am dead chuffed to to meet Kathy and Rick.
Kathy for the help through her book and website and Rick because of this site and some of the best looking corns i have seen.
Are some of the photo's in your book from Rick, Kathy?
 
why dont we just put an end to this fude, i dont want anyone to get angry, it all depends on what you want to do and how your snakes react. you might have snakes that love eachother and ones that culdnt go a day in the same tanks, but i think htta all depends on the personalities of your snake, and i think this is sjut foolish to be bickering like this, it is your own decision if you want to house them together or not, its up to you and no one can change that :cheers:
 
I don't really understand why the housing together subject is so emotional to so many people. Facts are facts, and people choose their own risk level everyday in everything they do. Why wouldn't we want them to make up their own minds on this subject, once they have read all of the facts?

To Oldhand,
Yes, there are some photos by Rich, by Don S., and by a few others in the current edition. The photos without any credit are by Bill. The others have the photographer's name under the photo. The updated version (due out in about 3 months or so) will have a lot more photos and many will be by Don S. He sent us a zillion or so to choose from, and they were really super!
 
Kathy, I guess it's an emotive subject as we all care about our snakes so much, regardless of which view we take.

For some of us, any risk to our Corns - no matter how minimal - is unacceptable. This means that those of us taking the risk of housing together are seen as irresponsible and are told as much, sometimes very bluntly. Nobody here wants to have another Corn keeper thinking badly of them, responses are given in kind and so threads get heated and personal very quickly.

It seems to me that the only middle ground is to provide the facts as you've done so clearly and let people make up their own minds, as you suggest.

Everybody - Throughout any debate, we need to bear in mind that the one thing we ALL have in common is our wish to provide the best possible care for our Corns, otherwise we wouldn't be here. I sometimes get the feeling that we lose sight of this in the heat of the moment.
 
Wow this housing together just gets beat to death on any and all forums. The reason it becomes so heated is mostly because the people who are 100% not for it, seem to try to force this upon someone who is for the most part just ASKING if its ok to house together. Like someone else said, we take risk everyday, just going out and getting a pet of any kind is a risk, your risking your money, bodily harm and lots of other things I'm sure. Some of us are bigger risk takers than others so if 1 person thinks its worth it and someone else dosent, that shouldnt be seen as an opening to force your opinion on others.
 
Lmao

Packerfan4 First off whatever exeriences you got when you were 3 mean absolutly nothing now. Im sure you were very good at such responsibilities at the ripe old age of 3. If you want to house your snakes together thats fine with me. Nothing I would practice in our house though. Yes we do have more than one.
My wife and I have been keeping snakes for just over a year now.
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=Joker

HAHAHAH ur a smart one...wow you've been keepin snakes a whole year. i guess u probably know a lot more than me since you've had snakes for a year im sure i havent learned a thing in the 12 years i've been keepin them...ur a dumb one
 
Rajil. I think the issue is, if you want to take chances with yourself, that's fine. But to risk the health of an innocent animal who's normal behavior does not include cuddling up with anything, that's different. I think people get very heated because they feel the animal may be suffering abuse or stress. Anyone who cares about their animals should feel this way I would think.
 
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