Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
Thank you, you have given very pertinent information and 1 out of 3 ain't bad. :headbang:
Order in the court... :smash:
-
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How pure must a corn be to be truely pure?
- Thread starter antsterr
- Start date
Thank you, you have given very pertinent information and 1 out of 3 ain't bad. :headbang:
Order in the court... :smash:
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
Okay, I'll count you as the 4th. No worries, you always have a warm spot in my heart old friend.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis
When does a candycane bred from a Miami phase x (creamsicle) gain pure status?
It won't, if you are of the school of thought that any introduction of genes from a non corn makes it impure.
Quote:
Agreed, perhaps not all candycanes have creamsicle in their lineage… but then that also begs the question… where did all the lines of candycanes with creamsicle in their lineage go?
Into the great mixing vat that is "pet corn snakes".
__________________
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130610&highlight=hybrid&page=6
"...since creamsicles have
been bred with corn snakes very
extensively, it can be impossible to tell if
a snake has creamsicle background
based on appearance."
http://www.hisscanada.com/HISS new... Vol 1.pdf
"sure must only be a few drops of that emoryi left by now, since no more creams were added in since at least 1990, as far as I can remember)....COOL. THANKS FOR THE HISTORY. I SAW MY FIRST CREAMSICLES IN TUCSON WHEN JOHN MARTIN BRED ALBINO CORNS TO EMORY'S. HE GOT THE ALBINO CORNS IN THE EARLY 80S (MAYBE LATE 70S) FROM ERNIE WAGNER. TRADED A MEX MEX SOMEONE CAUGHT IN TUCSON FOR THEM. HE REPORTED TO ME THAT THE F2S WERE FADED, UGLY ALBINOS AND HE DROPPED THE PROJECT. OF COURSE, THEY LATER BECAME KNOWN AS CREAMSICLES....- - - - I got my first creamsicles from Kevin Enge at Hogtown in Gainesville, Florida. By then, we already had no-white (sunglow) corns and reverse okeetees. Some of the first creamsicles we obtained had very light backgrounds. We happened to have a female albino corn with a very light background, so bred it, the light creams, and a couple of reverse okeetees with a very light background together for a few years. We added in a Miami phase or two with little or no orange in the background. That group became the foundation for our candycane line. Then over the years refined it, adding other corns as needed. But as far as I remember, we never added candycane to alb. okeetees, only the candycanes got the dose of creams, along with other founding stock. And the fact that alb. okeetees were added to candycanes (but no candycanes were added to the alb. okeetee projects) seems to have caused the confusion about what is pure and what is not.....However, unless you can trace a line's ancestry back to the wild, there is no way to guarantee any line is "pure" (and there is a slight chance of "contamination" even from the wild!) Back in the '80s, albino corns were much more readily available than creams, so I have no reason to believe that the original albinos had cream in them. But I can't trace them back to the wild....
" http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...show_threads=2
Thanks Dave, you are most certainly a wealth of information. Thank you for taking the time to share this.
__________________
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130405&page=23
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis
When does a candycane bred from a Miami phase x (creamsicle) gain pure status?
It won't, if you are of the school of thought that any introduction of genes from a non corn makes it impure.
Quote:
Agreed, perhaps not all candycanes have creamsicle in their lineage… but then that also begs the question… where did all the lines of candycanes with creamsicle in their lineage go?
Into the great mixing vat that is "pet corn snakes".
__________________
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130610&highlight=hybrid&page=6
"...since creamsicles have
been bred with corn snakes very
extensively, it can be impossible to tell if
a snake has creamsicle background
based on appearance."
http://www.hisscanada.com/HISS new... Vol 1.pdf
"sure must only be a few drops of that emoryi left by now, since no more creams were added in since at least 1990, as far as I can remember)....COOL. THANKS FOR THE HISTORY. I SAW MY FIRST CREAMSICLES IN TUCSON WHEN JOHN MARTIN BRED ALBINO CORNS TO EMORY'S. HE GOT THE ALBINO CORNS IN THE EARLY 80S (MAYBE LATE 70S) FROM ERNIE WAGNER. TRADED A MEX MEX SOMEONE CAUGHT IN TUCSON FOR THEM. HE REPORTED TO ME THAT THE F2S WERE FADED, UGLY ALBINOS AND HE DROPPED THE PROJECT. OF COURSE, THEY LATER BECAME KNOWN AS CREAMSICLES....- - - - I got my first creamsicles from Kevin Enge at Hogtown in Gainesville, Florida. By then, we already had no-white (sunglow) corns and reverse okeetees. Some of the first creamsicles we obtained had very light backgrounds. We happened to have a female albino corn with a very light background, so bred it, the light creams, and a couple of reverse okeetees with a very light background together for a few years. We added in a Miami phase or two with little or no orange in the background. That group became the foundation for our candycane line. Then over the years refined it, adding other corns as needed. But as far as I remember, we never added candycane to alb. okeetees, only the candycanes got the dose of creams, along with other founding stock. And the fact that alb. okeetees were added to candycanes (but no candycanes were added to the alb. okeetee projects) seems to have caused the confusion about what is pure and what is not.....However, unless you can trace a line's ancestry back to the wild, there is no way to guarantee any line is "pure" (and there is a slight chance of "contamination" even from the wild!) Back in the '80s, albino corns were much more readily available than creams, so I have no reason to believe that the original albinos had cream in them. But I can't trace them back to the wild....
" http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...show_threads=2
Thanks Dave, you are most certainly a wealth of information. Thank you for taking the time to share this.
__________________
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130405&page=23
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
Purity is a fleeting concept where it concerns the pet corn snake. It is about a valid point as asking to see proof that ones poodle is a pure wolf as one desires to repopulate a lost population of wolves in an area with ones poodle.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
Thanks for the chuckle.:roflmao:
AngryTexan
Oil Field Trash
well i'll give my pointless opinion...
I read this whole thread because i'm stuck in a FEMA trailer just waiting for my next 16 hour shift playing with Ruby and I see that Carpe is just keeping the conversation going and sometimes someone will respond decently. I think if you don't like it then unsubscribe or tune out. I have no input or even understanding of the corn snake's genealogy or whatever, but I do like philosophy. so I chock this up to entertainment and enlightenment in some cases. new ways of looking at things. I personally just like the pretty colors and patterns of these snakes.
But hey, I'm just the dumb new guy.
unch:
I read this whole thread because i'm stuck in a FEMA trailer just waiting for my next 16 hour shift playing with Ruby and I see that Carpe is just keeping the conversation going and sometimes someone will respond decently. I think if you don't like it then unsubscribe or tune out. I have no input or even understanding of the corn snake's genealogy or whatever, but I do like philosophy. so I chock this up to entertainment and enlightenment in some cases. new ways of looking at things. I personally just like the pretty colors and patterns of these snakes.
But hey, I'm just the dumb new guy.
unch:
airenlow
hope is not a strategy
Huh ?
rich333
They Are Coming!!!
beautifullywild77
Go Penguins!!!
beautifullywild77
Go Penguins!!!
maybe the second try?
AngryTexan
Oil Field Trash
that poor dog
DMong
colubrid connoisseur
So what's the real point of all this, other than you are just bored to death and always want to beat the LONG rotted horse corpse into a pulverised milkshake? Who is arguing that there are not many countless THOUSANDS of mixed up corn crosses out in the hobby? I can assure you it isn't me, because I know better. No worries for me though, because I have several very authentic P.guttatus, and many other real-deal types of snakes too. And it's all because I have made it a strict point to study and research everything I know. I will always know the sources of authentic snakes of all kinds too, even the morphs. This is what I do! And I'll always know which lines to steer far clear of as well. Unfortunately, the general hobby is in a very different predicament if most want genuinely authentic stuff. They sure as hell are not going to find them at your local petco or typical show table.
Anyway, this gets very old. Most dont care about what they breed, and a small portion does. This will never change. Also, the first creamsicles were created to experiment with genetics in it's very infancy. Today, it is more about making mutts because most don't know any better. No surprise there either.
Anyway, this gets very old. Most dont care about what they breed, and a small portion does. This will never change. Also, the first creamsicles were created to experiment with genetics in it's very infancy. Today, it is more about making mutts because most don't know any better. No surprise there either.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
maybe the second try?
Now that looks like a pure wolf to me.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
If there are countless thousands of mixed up pet corn snakes at the breeders tables, petco, etc. then the question of purity is not of much use at all to your average breeder or buyer. If one looks at pet corn snakes in the same manner as we do the domestic dog then perhaps purity does not matter, but rather the breed or morph that really matters.
These are all corn snakes hybrids. Perhaps purity should be thought of in the same manner as we think of purity with dog breeds? You would never think of replacing wolves with dogs in the wild nor should one replace wild corns with domestic pet corns. A pet corn that breeds true is given the status of a trade name or morph in the same manner that a domestic dog is given that same status when a new breed is created.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
maybe the second try?
Perhaps, this may work better.... if the purity of many corn snakes in the hobby is as questionable as the purity of this pure wolf above then perhaps purity matters in the same way it does with their respective counterparts. I.e. a wild caught corn is to a wolf as a domestic corn is to a dog.
BloodyBaroness
Captain Titsworth
Massive applause. :bowdown:
airenlow
hope is not a strategy
If there are countless thousands of mixed up pet corn snakes at the breeders tables, petco, etc. then the question of purity is not of much use at all to your average breeder or buyer. If one looks at pet corn snakes in the same manner as we do the domestic dog then perhaps purity does not matter, but rather the breed or morph that really matters.
These are all corn snakes hybrids. Perhaps purity should be thought of in the same manner as we think of purity with dog breeds? You would never think of replacing wolves with dogs in the wild nor should one replace wild corns with domestic pet corns. A pet corn that breeds true is given the status of a trade name or morph in the same manner that a domestic dog is given that same status when a new breed is created.
Finally, pics of your collection...