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How the heck did this happen?!?

If you breed a pair of Motley het Stripes you will. Genetically, Motley het Stripe is actually het for Motley and Stripe (Motley & Stripe sit on the same Allele)...But Motley is expressed of the two. It's very possible in the offspring of such a pairing to have two copies of just Stripe rather then a copy of each (Motley and Stripe). I've frequently produced "pure" Stripes from Motley het Stripes (though I've nixed Motley completely from my colonies now)...It just takes experience to identify them properly compared to their Motley het Stripe siblings who look darn close to an actual Stripe.

Ahhhh, I'm glad the queen of stripes has joined in!! :) lol! I know I should have asked you about this matter long ago! Guess I kept forgetting.

So do you feel that from the looks of this preshed baby <the first one> that it would be a genetic stripe?

Any particular reason you have eradicated the motley gene from your colony?

With the large numbers of stripes you have produced <and motley/stripes> would you say the law of averages works out and in the end you get the appropriate number of genetic stripes out of breeding "het motley and stripes" together? By this I mean, do you find that it just seems you always get more motley stripes than straight genetic stripes from these breedings?

What do you feel the proper term for a snake exhibiting motley and stripe would be? I know I usually use motley/stripes, some people prefer using the other terms like q-tip mots, zipper mots, etc.

How about demand. Do you find that there is a lack of demand for snakes who exhibit both traits? Ie. If someone had a group of motleys, a group of stripes and a group of motley/stripes which would NORMALLY sell out first? <Don't worry, I know this is oppinion and fluke as to what goes first, just asking for what you see as the law of average!>

Rebecca
 
How about demand. Do you find that there is a lack of demand for snakes who exhibit both traits? Ie. If someone had a group of motleys, a group of stripes and a group of motley/stripes which would NORMALLY sell out first? <Don't worry, I know this is oppinion and fluke as to what goes first, just asking for what you see as the law of average!>

In my experience.....

Nice full stripes or full lack of stripe (patternless) are my best 'stripe' sellers. Nice 'dot' type motleys sell better then the mediocre motleys and banded type motleys. The motley/stripes (which I assumer are the pin-stripe type motleys) sell fairly well all the time.

Overall...I'd have to say full stripe, motley/stripe, and dot motleys sell very well for me. The blah motleys and partially striped stripes and the small pin-stripe motley/stripe animals are not big sellers...

This all changes of course depending on genetics. Sometimes having the genes is more important than the look. I.e. I think I'd have no problem selling my charcoal motleys whether they were nice motleys or okay looking. But in 5 years it'll probably matter a whole lot more what they look like.
 
So do you feel that from the looks of this preshed baby <the first one> that it would be a genetic stripe?

I have absolutely no doubt that first hatchling is a Stripe based on the pictures.

Any particular reason you have eradicated the motley gene from your colony?

Welllllll...I'm into my 4th month of a difficult pregnancy and have to downsize somewhere. I prefer the Stripes over the Motleys, so the Stripes got to stay. I did keep my project Phantom Motley hatchlings from Jeff though (the project's too cool to drop just yet).

With the large numbers of stripes you have produced <and motley/stripes> would you say the law of averages works out and in the end you get the appropriate number of genetic stripes out of breeding "het motley and stripes" together? By this I mean, do you find that it just seems you always get more motley stripes than straight genetic stripes from these breedings?

Nope. The reason being it's just like any double recessive het (except the het form of Motley & Stripe you can see a difference rather them just being normal). I imagine you could plug het Motley Stripe x het Motley Stripe into one of those calculators and get a % you're supposed to get (if the caculators are setup right). Baby's eating my brain cells and I have a sinus infection, so I can't think that hard right now to tell you the % myself. ;)

What do you feel the proper term for a snake exhibiting motley and stripe would be? I know I usually use motley/stripes, some people prefer using the other terms like q-tip mots, zipper mots, etc.

Well, I prefer Motley het Stripe (or just listing Motley x Stripe) because they look like Motleys and carry the Stripe gene...Technically you should say they're het Motley & Stripe, but most people don't understand how they can look like Motleys but not actually be Motleys. I don't like the use of Motley-Stripe for Motleys het Stripe because the term is used for genetic Motleys (no Stripe gene) that have a stripe like pattern.

How about demand. Do you find that there is a lack of demand for snakes who exhibit both traits? Ie. If someone had a group of motleys, a group of stripes and a group of motley/stripes which would NORMALLY sell out first? <Don't worry, I know this is oppinion and fluke as to what goes first, just asking for what you see as the law of average!

I agree with Jeff on this. Demand is always higher on the "ideal" specimens. In the case of Stripes, that's perfect stripes...In the case of Motleys, that's the perfect dotted pattern. You will have some people that like the variety that can come from Motley het Stripe, it's all a matter of opinion. Me personally, I like the "ideal look" of Motley...But I love any Stripe (except Cube, not a fan of Cube).
 
As far as I'm concerned, and have always believed, Sunglow indicates an Amel lacking white. Hypo does not need to be included, but I believe muddies the history as it has been included in some characterizations of Sunglow. Motley and Stripes tend to have severely reduced amounts of white and are therefore almost by definition automatically Sunglows. :shrugs:
D80

What he said! Anyway, congrats on you beauties!

I would like to mention that I have an amel motley (het butter) who is pert-near candy cane, so it does happen. Don't you love the variety in each morph! I think I'll breed her next year to my butter boy and see what happens.
 
Please pardon the double post.
I will post a pic of my odd amel motley in another thread just in case anyone wants to see her.

I'm a-wonderin'. Are you excited about getting stripes? Or did you really just want motleys?
 
I found an online genetics predictor (Kornnatter), but for some reason what popped out doesn't seem quite right to me (the downloadable predictors don't work for me because I'm on a Mac)...

Motley het Stripe x Motley het Stripe =

3/4 Motley 66% poss.het. Stripe
1/4 Stripe

I guess the way to look at it is 66% of those Motleys should be Motley het Stripe (genetically het Motley & Stripe) rather then straight Motley. Now, the problem is it can be near impossible to tell the difference between Motley and Motley het Stripe. All of my pairings involving Motley het Stripe have been with a Stripe, not another Motley het Stripe so I've had no problems trying to guess which are Motleys and which are Motleys het Stripe. I guess your pairing you would have to sell the Motley as 66% het Stripe since you can't tell for sure? I think this is where we're getting these Motleys that are surprise, surprise also het Stripe.

So with my Motley het Stripe x Stripe pairings:

1/2 Motley het Stripe
1/2 Stripe
 
Well, I am hoping for nice motleys. I have three people who were already on the wait list for nice motleys and of course the first and only one out was a stripe! lol!

However, it's turned out to be a nice surprise, because I did need a sunglow stripe female. So my daughter is happy as she was "given" a new snake of her own, and I'm happy to have the genes to use in the future, but I hope the rest have a good chance at being nice motleys! lol :)

Rebecca
 
I did keep my project Phantom Motley hatchlings from Jeff though (the project's too cool to drop just yet).

You think they were cool....you should see what is coming this year in that project area if all goes well.... :spinner:
 
Well, I snuck up to the snake room to check on progression, took the lid off the egg containers and my eyes rolled back in my head so far I saw the back of my neck!!! All the while exclaiming out loud - YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! Look what I found...



Guess there's yet ANOTHER hidden het! LOL! :)

Rebecca

ps- My chances on filling the waiting list for sunglow mots is severely depleting with each hatch... Doh!
 
So far here are the hatchlings -

Amel or Sunglow Stripe. New name - CC Stripes!


Amel or Sunglow Motley


Snow Motley


Here's what's left to go...


Since the eggs are hatching individually and in excellent condition, I can give the actual dried eggshell belonging to the hatchling to the new owners! Here are the three from the above hatchlings. They dried perfectly!


Anyone care to bet on if there will be any snow stripes?!? lol! Too bad I just bought a SHWACK of snow stripes and mots wholesale to re-sell! lol!

Rebecca
 
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Nice surprises!! Here's my 2¢ on sunglow..

As for the sunglow having white versus not having white, I can't recall ever seeing a striped amel that had white. But I don't believe that makes them sunglow. Here are two amel stripes I have (both from blckkt (Stephanie)). One I label a sunglow the other I don't; even though both have no white. I think the difference in intensities of oranges and yellows is quite obvious and I have no reservations about labeling the sunglow a sunglow.

But I do agree with others that far too often people label sunglow to mediocre animals, much in the same way there are too many "candy canes" that have a lot of orange.

Sunglow
attachment.php.jpg


Regular amel
attachment-1.php-1.jpg
 
Thats a great illustration. You can definetly see how you would label one sunglow and the other amel. I went into a local pet shop (reptiles) yesterday and they had baby corns. The amels were labeled "candy cane" (one out of the bunch actually was), and the normals were all labeld "miami", (again, one was kinda/sorta/maybe miami like). That always drives me nuts, but thats what shops tend to do. They did have a gorgeous little late 2007 anery, with a very male tail, though his sex is unknown. His saddles meet up in a section to give him a cute zig zag effect there. He was cheap, I was weak, I bought him. He was too cute. I named him Coco Puff.
 
Wow! Those are great illustrative pictures! Well, I think after seeing what these guys produced and by the fact that I'm just not blown away by the colour of the parents, I will be re/labeling these adults as amel motleys het anery and stripe.

In the end only one baby looks as though it MIGHT be a sunglow, but who knows what the results will be after a few sheds. So again, I will be labeling all the amels as just that, amel mots :( So guess I'll be ordering in some SUNGLOW mots from Bayou! lol! :)

Not exactly the surprises I wanted, but hey, I ended up with a "keeper" or two out of the deal! lol

Thanks for all the input into this thread I REALLY appreciate it! If anyone else can post pictures showing examples of the differences between amels and sunglows, I think that would be very informative and helpful!

Rebecca
 
So lovely.

Oh, and Rebecca?

I want that snow motley. Thanks :)

(yes, I know I need another corn like a hole in my head. Still)
 
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