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Hybrid or Pure?? Your opinion please
- Thread starter madamwlf
- Start date
Jynx
Digger, RN
It does look a little odd in the coloring aspect, but otherwise, it looks like a corn. The champagne snake is defintily not like any I've seen before, so it very well might be a different combination of genetics that affect different colors.
Nice touch adding the bottle of don perignon by the way.
Nice touch adding the bottle of don perignon by the way.
gardenmum
Hopelessly Addicted
Well, I do have to say, when this post was first started and I looked at the picture of that corn, my very first impression was jungle corn. That yellow just seems so intense for a corn and the pattern like jungles I have seen. I am not saying that it is not a corn, nor do I know the person who bred it, but just saying what my first impression was.
howiet4702
Wanted: Jasper Co Okeetee
I have heard nothing but good things about Paul. At first glance, it didn't look like a pure corn to me. However, that is just my opinion. I am looking forward to Paul coming onboard to explain.
madamwlf
New member
I heard back from Paul and this is what he said:
"I have sold a number of champagnes over the last few years. But since I've sold the first one there hasn't been enough time to grow it up, breed it to an reverse okeetee to create champagne x reverse okeetee (het for champagne) grow the hets up and breed them together to produce the first champagne reverse okeetee.
As far as the champagne being a hybrid... unfortunately there are a lot of ignorant people out there. They will look at a picture and speculate among themselves when all along they have contact info to the person who could answer all their questions. As another business, I create Japanese bonsai trees. In this industry there are people who have read all the books and know all the buzz words but couldn't create a bonsai if their life depended on it. we call them "textbook masters"... perhaps there are "textbook masters" in the herp world as well."
Paul
So, as it seems I did not get this snake from him. BUT I stand by what I have said. It was sold to me as a Champagne Reverse Okeetee. I still believe she is a pure corn snake and not a hybrid. As I stated before, she does not have yellow on her. She does have a light color orage and cream colored white but no yellow. Anyone who is in the area is more then welcome to come see her. I will stand by what I have said. And for those who think they know more about my snakes then I do, please watch how you come down on people with your "knowledge." Just because you have a few snakes does not make you an expert on snakes in general and someone else's collection.
If Paul wishes to come on here to defend his side then that's fine. But you should not be judging someone without having asked that person first. Personally, I see nothing wrong with hybrid snakes. I have a very beautiful Jurassic (in my avatar) that is a hybrid. We humans make hybrids everyday. Take the dog industry. We call them mutts but are they not hybrids between two different breeds???? And it isn't like Mother Nature doesn't create hybrids herself. Down in Florida corns and rats have been interbreeding for years.
With that, I have said my peice on this controversy and I thank you all for your opinions. Later.
Jeannie
"I have sold a number of champagnes over the last few years. But since I've sold the first one there hasn't been enough time to grow it up, breed it to an reverse okeetee to create champagne x reverse okeetee (het for champagne) grow the hets up and breed them together to produce the first champagne reverse okeetee.
As far as the champagne being a hybrid... unfortunately there are a lot of ignorant people out there. They will look at a picture and speculate among themselves when all along they have contact info to the person who could answer all their questions. As another business, I create Japanese bonsai trees. In this industry there are people who have read all the books and know all the buzz words but couldn't create a bonsai if their life depended on it. we call them "textbook masters"... perhaps there are "textbook masters" in the herp world as well."
Paul
So, as it seems I did not get this snake from him. BUT I stand by what I have said. It was sold to me as a Champagne Reverse Okeetee. I still believe she is a pure corn snake and not a hybrid. As I stated before, she does not have yellow on her. She does have a light color orage and cream colored white but no yellow. Anyone who is in the area is more then welcome to come see her. I will stand by what I have said. And for those who think they know more about my snakes then I do, please watch how you come down on people with your "knowledge." Just because you have a few snakes does not make you an expert on snakes in general and someone else's collection.
If Paul wishes to come on here to defend his side then that's fine. But you should not be judging someone without having asked that person first. Personally, I see nothing wrong with hybrid snakes. I have a very beautiful Jurassic (in my avatar) that is a hybrid. We humans make hybrids everyday. Take the dog industry. We call them mutts but are they not hybrids between two different breeds???? And it isn't like Mother Nature doesn't create hybrids herself. Down in Florida corns and rats have been interbreeding for years.
With that, I have said my peice on this controversy and I thank you all for your opinions. Later.
Jeannie
gardenmum
Hopelessly Addicted
I agree with you, there is nothing wrong with hybrids. But I don't think anyone that replied on here said they thought so either?! You asked people to say "what they thought" the snake looked like and people gave you their "opinions." As we all know, when opinions are asked for, it is pretty well a given that you will have people in both camps, human nature. I am sorry if you took it that anyone was putting down hybrids or even your snake, but I don't think they were.
I'm confused. You did say in your first post that you purchased this particular snake from Paul last year. But are you saying that you actually did not get it from him? I am just asking because I may very well be misreading what you wrote.
madamwlf
New member
gardenmum said:
First of all, yes a few people have said they do not think hybrids are ethical. Not on here no but on the chat they have.
Now, I thought I had gotten her from Paul because he is the only one that creates Champagnes. But it turns out I didn't get her from him. So at this point I'm not sure who I got her from but it doesn't matter. I know what she was sold as. If she is that, I don't know and don't care. She is still a reverse okeetee and a beautiful one at that.
champagne corn
Good evening my friends.
My first time here... thanx for the invite.
The champagne corn is pure guttata guttata with very red eyes. When Tammy took the photo on the bottle it didn't offer the best view of the eyes, but we did get a pic of a snake on a bottle... not easy. We never imagined her eyes would get so much attention.
The champagne corn came from a striped snow project. The intense pink background color with rose colored stripes got my wifes attention. Tammy, who hated all snakes at the time, named it "Champagne". I owned the parents and a friend owned the grandparents so can guarantee you that there is no lampropeltis in these animals.
Feel free to e-mail me directly if you have any questions. My address is [email protected].
Paul
Good evening my friends.
My first time here... thanx for the invite.
The champagne corn is pure guttata guttata with very red eyes. When Tammy took the photo on the bottle it didn't offer the best view of the eyes, but we did get a pic of a snake on a bottle... not easy. We never imagined her eyes would get so much attention.
The champagne corn came from a striped snow project. The intense pink background color with rose colored stripes got my wifes attention. Tammy, who hated all snakes at the time, named it "Champagne". I owned the parents and a friend owned the grandparents so can guarantee you that there is no lampropeltis in these animals.
Feel free to e-mail me directly if you have any questions. My address is [email protected].
Paul
E. g. guttata
Her name was Mary-9/17/05
Okay, well it looks like Paul has put to rest the question of whether or not that champagne is a hybrid, but I am not convinced that the snake origionally pictured in the thread is a reverse okeetee. As I have stated, those yellows stand out a lot (yellow is one component in orange before you disreguard anything I am saying here). I hatched a reverse okeetee last year, and Taceas has pictures of her reverse okeetee from when it was young. In all these pictures, the oranges are clearly apparent, and there doesn't look to be a yellow wash over them at all. Here is the link to my reverse okeetee: http://community.webshots.com/photo/270983297/276509970vcpORN and here are Tac's: http://www.mainecoon.net/~rain/revokeetee.htm
I hope that someone can clear this confusion up for me at least. I'm not that experienced in telling a hybrid by photo alone.
I hope that someone can clear this confusion up for me at least. I'm not that experienced in telling a hybrid by photo alone.
JTGoff69
New member
gardenmum said:
Well said Dianne.
Madam, I never said either in the chat or on the forum that there was anything wrong with hybrids. If you look at my signature I own one myself. The only thing I DID say was that the snake looked to ME like it MIGHT have some king in it. Everyone has their opinions, and that's what makes the world interesting imo. I never inferred that I know more about your snakes than you do or that I am an expert because I own a few snakes, but I wouldn't consider myself "ignorant" either. I'm sorry that you have taken it so personally.