hybrids vs. nonhybrids

[Roy Munson]

It's ground english walnut shell.
Thanks for the info but I'm happy with my substrate and have not had any issues with it to date.

Don't be afraid to listen to an experienced keeper like Jim (tricksterpup). I would never use ground walnut shell for substrate. Having no issues to date doesn't mean much. I drove with bald tires for months without incident, but replacing them was a good idea. I hope you never feed a snake on that stuff...

 

[Midnght]

Don't be afraid to listen to an experienced keeper like Jim (tricksterpup). I would never use ground walnut shell for substrate. Having no issues to date doesn't mean much. I drove with bald tires for months without incident, but replacing them was a good idea. I hope you never feed a snake on that stuff...

Yes I do feed them on it. I mean sure maybe my 15 year old corn was one in a million considering the averag life spane is reported from 10-20 years based on where you look or read. But all the snakes I've owned to date have never had any problems, respritory, regurging, etc.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking any advice. But unless i'm doing something really wrong, I have had far less issues with my snakes than I've read about here or other places Roy.

Cannibalism sure, stupid attempt to house snakes. An escape now and then who hasn't. But no other issues what so ever, never need to help with shedding or dangling food, mites, impaction, what ever.

The boa had mites when I got him he was on bark. Not my doing but cleared up.

So don't know what else to say. It's not broke I see no reason to fix it, right? If you have a something that works why adopt something different and risk problems?

But we should get this back on topic though and perhaps move to a new thread to discuss my snake handling non best practices. }:>)[/b/]

 

[starsevol]

Honestly, Midnight, you really should listen to these people.
Just because you've never had a problem, doesn't mean you never will.
Most people use aspen. I use newspaper.
I wanted something that couldn't be injested, and my snakes like to use the pages as hides, usually ignoring the hides I provide for them.
I would think that your substrate is harsh on the snakes skin, and can cause alot of damage if injested. Please reconsider......

The people on here not only have decades of experiance keeping these snakes, they are truly passionate about the species. One of the members here has written "the" book on corns, and was one of the very first people to breed this species. Some of us can offer you advice that could make the lives of your snakes better!

 

[Roy Munson]

So don't know what else to say. It's not broke I see no reason to fix it, right? If you have a something that works why adopt something different and risk problems?

Well, I also like to say that it isn't a problem until it's a problem. :shrugs:

But we should get this back on topic though and perhaps move to a new thread to discuss my snake handling non best practices. }:>)[/b/]

Don't worry; I'm a moderator here. I'll be the one to decide when things go too far off-topic.

 

[starsevol]

^^^
Yup, he's "The Munsonator"

 

[Midnght]

Well, I also like to say that it isn't a problem until it's a problem. :shrugs:



Don't worry; I'm a moderator here. I'll be the one to decide when things go too far off-topic.

I know but we kind'a hijacked it. }:>)
Maybe seperate into two posts?

 

[Midnght]

Honestly, Midnight, you really should listen to these people.
Just because you've never had a problem, doesn't mean you never will.
Most people use aspen. I use newspaper.
I wanted something that couldn't be injested, and my snakes like to use the pages as hides, usually ignoring the hides I provide for them.
I would think that your substrate is harsh on the snakes skin, and can cause alot of damage if injested. Please reconsider......

The people on here not only have decades of experiance keeping these snakes, they are truly passionate about the species. One of the members here has written "the" book on corns, and was one of the very first people to breed this species. Some of us can offer you advice that could make the lives of your snakes better!

You don't have to like what I use for substrate heck, you'll be even more upset to know it's a blend. 15 lbs calci sand mixed into 50 lbs ground english walnut shell.

The lives of my snakes are quite good and healthy you cna get as upset as you wish but still as things are perhaps a step back shoudl be taken to see what i'm doing right and see if that's why so called bad substrate or disliked is working?

15 years is a long life never had a regurge, never had shed issues, never had disease, never had them not want to eat, the list goes on.

Can you honestly say the same?

If what I use doesn't work for you well that's fine. But it works for me and to say the lives of my snakes are not good is rather insulting don't you think?

I'm sure you're not trying to be and just trying to be helpful. But while being helpful you're making it very much yours and their way is best and that's clearly not the case or iId be doing it that way. }:>)

 

[Roy Munson]

I know but we kind'a hijacked it. }:>)
Maybe seperate into two posts?

Well, you're probably right. But it happens all the time. I don't want to split this thread just so we can have a "Midnght bashing" thread!

My first corn died of impaction from feeding on corn-cob substrate, so I'm sort of leery of feeding on particulate or shredded substrate.

 

[starsevol]

You don't have to like what I use for substrate heck, you'll be even more upset to know it's a blend. 15 lbs calci sand mixed into 50 lbs ground english walnut shell.

The lives of my snakes are quite good and healthy you cna get as upset as you wish but still as things are perhaps a step back shoudl be taken to see what i'm doing right and see if that's why so called bad substrate or disliked is working?

15 years is a long life never had a regurge, never had shed issues, never had disease, never had them not want to eat, the list goes on.

Can you honestly say the same?

If what I use doesn't work for you well that's fine. But it works for me and to say the lives of my snakes are not good is rather insulting don't you think?

I'm sure you're not trying to be and just trying to be helpful. But while being helpful you're making it very much yours and their way is best and that's clearly not the case or iId be doing it that way. }:>)

I'm not upset, but people who know ALOT more than I do, don't use what you use. And I tend to listen to people who know ALOT more than I do....you should do the same. I'm a newbie compared to alot of people on this forum. I've only been keeping snakes for 13 years (cali king, rosy boas, ball pythons, garter, desert kings, a grayband king, and corns).

I'm saying that by listening, you could make the lives of your snakes BETTER. Funny how your pride seems to get in the way of doing what's best for the lives that depend on you....

 

[ForkedTung]

It's ground english walnut shell.
Thanks for the info but I'm happy with my substrate and have not had any issues with it to date.

When I was the foreman of a woodshop, we had farmers etc... that would come in and haul away all of our wood shavings and chips. One thing they steered very clear of was any walnut we had. Apparently when the horse would urinate on the walnut it would react with a chemical in the chips that would then be transferred to the horses bloodstream, via the hooves, and sicken or kill it....Just an FYI! I don't plan on experimenting with any of my snakes substrates.

 

[KJUN]

It's ground english walnut shell.
Thanks for the info but I'm happy with my substrate and have not had any issues with it to date.

I think Dean said it best....

Don't be afraid to listen to an experienced keeper like Jim (tricksterpup).

I admit: I was shocked to read your post there, Midnght. I might have read it wrong, but it had the tone of a kid putting his hands over his ears and yelling "Nananana!" so he doesn't have to hear the truth. I know: I'm being humorous, but I did think the tone in your post was one of, "What I have SEEMS to work, and I don't care about learning better."

With that said, here is advice with someone who has a LOT more experience than you (not counting the fact that I share my colony with a vet): walnut is NOT a good substrate for snakes. Period. Of course, you don't have to pay attention to my advice, but that won't make the substrate a good one......lol.

 

[Drizzt80]

Interesting that a guy that just had one snake eat another due to his lack of homework and husbandry skills is "lecturing" the implied superiority of their substrate choice. I'm fine with that . . . I guess. :shrugs:

Good luck, seriously, with your future endeavors.
D80

 

[Silvergrin]

Midnght: I used to cohab my corns when I first started, and I "never had an incident" (well, I did get some unexpected eggs but the lady was fine and I had a great shop nearby that helped me with them). Originally the people I got from said it was fine to house them together as long as I fed them separately, it wasn't two males, and I didn't mind babies (although I also thought I wouldn't get babies unless I bruminated - surprise!).

But when I found this site and read the overwhelming advice was to separate them, you can bet I did that.

Hard to say what would have happened if I hadn't, or whether my snakes are really "happier" but it certainly didn't hurt, and I know now that I WON'T have a problem with cohabing

There's no point in anyone getting pissy with this because it won't help, but considering that a bunch of keepers have told you a different substrate and feeding practice, why not switch? I don't think walnut's particularly cheaper than aspen, and if you're worried that your snake won't like such a big change in it's environment, why not, I don't know, provide a tub of the different bedding and see if your snake likes to chill in it or something.

On hybrids; I like them But I believe in very clear labeling and records, (and explaining to anyone who asks about my creams at a show and calls them a "cornsnake") and in breeding them only to other hybrids because the appeal of a hybrid for me is it's unique looks, so what's the point of diluting that?

 

[Susan]

Beautiful but cannibalistic. Wish I had know.

This is Freida.
Jungle Corn Albino

You mean, with your experience of having owned both a corn snake and a king snake before, the mere physical appearance of this snake doesn't SCREAM king snake to you? The seller had it clearly labeled and the snake was not misrepresented. Had you admitted to not knowing what you were purchasing at the time, I'm sure the seller would have gladly answered an inquiry of "what is a jungle corn?" with a full explanation.

 

[tricksterpup]

To bring back the original topic, I am not a huge fan of Mutts but when some one tosses you one, well you take it.

Here is my Hybird, its called a Forest Corn, a mbk x corn snake cross. Since I am a huge fan of MBKs, the original owner knew i would take it.

I am not sure how everybody enjoys these but here is what I call the Scale shot. This is a nice close up on the scales and coloration on the snake.

 

[tricksterpup]

lets try that again

I am not sure how everybody enjoys these but here is what I call the Scale shot. This is a nice close up on the scales and coloration on the snake.

 

[KJUN]

To bring back the original topic, I am not a huge fan of Mutts but when some one tosses you one, well you take it.

I agree. There is always room in the freezer for one more hybrid....lol.

 

[tyflier]

Beautiful but cannibalistic. Wish I had know.

This is Freida.
Jungle Corn Albino

Wait...you've owned cornsnakes in the past, and you had no idea that this snake wasn't a corn? This animal has albino Cal. king written all over it. It LOOKS more like a king than a corn.

Sorry, but that is your fault. I don't assume shoppers are uninformed, I assume they have researched what they are looking at. I can't answer questions that they don't ask, and it isn't my job to be a mind reader.

I sell snakes locally and over the internet. I also work in a pet shop with exotic parrots and reptiles. I can't start telling people about the various snakes in the shop until I know what they know, and what they don't know. At the very least, they need to show an interest and ask about a specific snake.

The same is true at shows. With thousands of people asking questions all day for 3 or 4 days straight...how could you expect a breeder to offer you information you haven't asked for...:shrugs:

Afterall...we breed snakes, not read minds. We are animal lovers not future seers...:bang:

 

[Midnght]

I'm not upset, but people who know ALOT more than I do, don't use what you use. And I tend to listen to people who know ALOT more than I do....you should do the same. I'm a newbie compared to alot of people on this forum. I've only been keeping snakes for 13 years (cali king, rosy boas, ball pythons, garter, desert kings, a grayband king, and corns).

I'm saying that by listening, you could make the lives of your snakes BETTER. Funny how your pride seems to get in the way of doing what's best for the lives that depend on you....

Oh I am listening. But to say their lives aren't good just because I don't use what others use because that's the reported norm smacks of an I know better than you attitude and completely disregards my own experience I've had. I don't tell people to use what I use. I've merely stated what I use because I was asked. Can I change it sure I can. Will I change at this point I don't see any reason to base don my own experience it's just that simple. If you can provide me with some studies or such about this substrate not being good for corns then your advice would be taken a lot better and I might change but as it is you simpley come off as a "do as I say because it's the only way" type and anything I'm doing is wrong irregardless of my past experience and that's not a way to win someone over.

I'm not unwilling to change. But you'll have to do better than just saying they know best and that's it to make me change.

Example, I've read a lot of places calci sand is bad while I don't use a 100% mix of it i've seriously considered dropping it from the substrate as I've read various articles and discussion about it. but I've never seen anything on ground english walnut shell being bad.

So with that said provide me with some data instead of just no one uses it and these experts only use this argument. It's not prideful to rely on ones own past experiences when nothing concrete is being shown to you.

 

[KJUN]

but I've never seen anything on ground english walnut shell being bad.

I haven't seen anything that said wet cement is bad, but that doesn't mean it is a good substrate. You haven't seen it because it lies between being as deadly as cedar and being actually safe. Nobody serious uses it, so why should people waste their time writing about how bad it is? It would be almost as much of a waste as me testing wet cement on my snakes! Calci-Sand is different because it isn't dangerous WITH proper precautions....and it was advertised/developed specifically for reptiles. Of course, the manufacturers are going to promote it to the point where people spend time needed to refute it. Not so with walnut.

Ground walnut was used for decades before you even had your first snake. Know what for? Among other things, it is an abrasive cleaner. For example, we tumble brass in it to clean it. In a couple of hours, dirty burnt brass is nice and shiny - it looks better than new! Leave it too long, and you can actually thin the brass walls of whatever is in it...and you want you snake to crawl over that its entire life? Yeah, it's safe...like sandpaper! It also can hold too much moisture (like corncob) and grow mold...or just skip the mold and give the snake ventral rot. Not counting that walnuts in husks straight off of the tree can be busted up and used to kill fish. That toxic enough for you? It is TOO TOXIC for most people to want to put pets on!

KJ