I can't get our little carpet to eat

[Jenstet]

Daddio,
I appreciate your comments.
We also heat entirely with wood during the winter months so that can be drying. I have a thick piece of vinyl that covers 80% of the top of the viv to try to keep the moisture in and help a little with heat retention. I suspected that we wouldn't need the CHE in the summer. We have older windows so we have moved the snakes away from the windows because it can get cold.
Maybe a smaller tank will be easier to heat. I'll have to think some more on the substrate. You make a good point about the humidity.
I have a soccer mom friend whose kids have balls pythons and they have gotten rid of any kind of from the top heat source because they were having issues with bad sheds. They only have a UTH. She showed me how she dumps water into the substrate everyday to keep the humidity up and keeps syran wrap over the top all the time. To be clear, I'm not doing that but that's how she handles the humidity issues she has.

 

[MysticExotics]

First, thank you for taking the time. I sincerely appreciate the help.

Yes, I have both a UTH and a ceramic heat emitting bulb. If I remove the bulb the tank will go down to 73 ish degrees except for in the hide. This is okay? I thought he needed a hot basking spot. He hangs out under the bulb a lot in the evenings and has never gone into either of the hides I have for him. I'm guessing he will just find the heat he needs like any snake would.

I'm using the mice she gave me. She was feeding him 2-3 fuzzys once a week. BUT..I am almost out and there is an expo this weekend so I can pick up whatever you think I need.

He is set up in a low traffic area. I should say the lowest traffic area in our house.

All the other info you restated is correct. When we picked him up I went over everything I had for him and the only thing she questioned was the UTH. She seemed to think it wasn't necessary. She kept her adults in tanks with big red basking lights on them. This guy was in a rack and she kept the heat in the room cranked up. That was where I got the misting from as well. I had read it wasn't necessary but was just doing what was suggested. I have been in contact with her twice since we got him and she seemed to think he would just start eating on his own. He just needed time. She didn't have any specific advice for me just to wait out the "adjustment period". She did offer to exchange him for another but that wasn't really what we were looking to do. I will see her at the expo this weekend and see what she thinks as well.

okay, so here is the plan.
-move him into a 10 gallon tank with just a UTH set at 90 on the thermostat. no heat lamp.
-leave him for a week, no handling, no feeding attempts.
-after that week try again? and then only try every two weeks.
-handle him minimally (for cleaning purposes if need be) until he starts eating.

If I am using only a UTH I can also cover the tank to keep it dark. Do you recommend this?

As for the feeding, we will just do the dangle and if he doesn't go for it I'll leave it in there overnight. I think I'll put him on newspaper in the 10 gallon so there are no substrate mishaps.

anything here I need to change or may have misunderstood?

I should add that we had been handling him a lot after that initial week. Every other day or so. We were initially more concerned with getting him easier to handle than any feeding issues. We've obviously made some mistakes here.

The temps are too hot. 90 is way too hot and is likely part of the reason for refusal to eat. No higher than 86 in the hot spot.
In a 10 gallon tank, a UTH (that takes up about *no more than* 30% of the tank) should be good. The space of the 20 gallon may need additional heat (CHE) to get the warm end to 84-86 temp range. (But that too, needs to be on a t-stat. Any heat source needs to be on a t-stat.)
I have ambient heat in my snake room, with a dual t-stat (one is a back up for the other one).

I have only been keeping Carpet Pythons for four years, but I have gained my knowledge from others who have been doing this for a lot longer. My boyfriend, Howard Redding, has been keeping Carpets for 19 years.

There is no need for regular misting, no matter where you live. If the area you are in gets really dry, and your Carpet has trouble shedding, then misting during a shed cycle is fine. I would let him go through a shed cycle, and see how it goes.

Edit to add: As long as the snake is properly hydrated, (fresh water in the cage) the only time additional moisture might be needed in drier climates is during a shed cycle, if they tend to have problems shedding.

Sounds like he needs to be bumped up in prey size. I would offer a hopper. My boyfriend starts his hatchlings off on hoppers. Carpets can handle bigger prey, they are not like Corns.

I do not think it is necessary to exchange him, just make a few adjustments, and I think he will be fine.

I would reduce the amount of handling to a minimum, at least until he is eating regularly for you.

With the reduction in heat and in handling, try offering food once a week. If he still refuses, extend it out to every two weeks in offering.
Also watch for shed process. Many of mine refuse to eat when they're in, or about to go into shed.

You can switch to newspaper for the time being, if you're worried about substrate ingestion. I use newspaper for some of mine.
(What substrate do you currently use? I looked, but I'm not seeing where you wrote it.)

 

[Jenstet]

I don't think I mentioned the substrate.
We ended up getting Repti Bark. Then I read some reviews of snakes getting splinters from it. The breeder recommended Eco-Earth and we were thinking of switching at the next cage clean. The repti bark seems really rough and chunky. I looked at the Eco-Earth and it seems a little nicer on the belly but I pick up a musty odor from the bags. What do you think?

Yikes, our temps are really off. I will fix that right away and get the smaller tank ready for him ASAP.
He has a giant water dish that I've seen him take a dip in so I think he can get what he needs as far as humidity.

Thank you everyone for helping me get this straightened out. I truly felt I had done my research but what I'm doing is not working well for this guy. I'll be sure to keep you posted.

 

[MysticExotics]

Aspen is fine for substrate. I use paper towels for my babies, have used aspen, and I do use newspaper for some of mine. I only use Eco Earth in some of my gecko cages. I do not like it for snakes.

You're on the right track. No one knows everything. There is always something new to learn, not matter how long you have been doing this.

You forgot one thing....where's the pics of him??

 

[daddio207]

There is no need for regular misting, no matter where you live.

You can switch to newspaper for the time being, if you're worried about substrate ingestion.

My house's humidity is in the single digits to the teens without use of a humidifier. I use a fogger in my reptile room just to get it to 30 to 40%
In the Northwest and Southeast states, humidity is usually a non-issue. In New England where the humidity inside the house could be 0-15% then it is prudent to get it up to a minimum of 30-35% and if misting the tank or tub is the only way to do it then it is necessary.
My comment on misting was not to disagree with your expertize in carpet pythons, only to give a New Englanders point of view on the extremely low humidity issues we have here this time of year.

My concern with using newspaper was mainly that the ambient temp could not be raised enough. The UTH thermostat will be set to a safe temp for the snake to lay on it if he crawls under the paper but the paper will cause enough of a barrier to keep the tanks ambient temp from rising high enough. Heat escapes thru aspen much easier raising the ambient temp. That was my thoughts on paper in her situation.



:cheers:

 

[Jenstet]

Here he is looking very approachable when we first got him home.

 

[Joba]

just throwing this out there and if it's already been addressed, forgive me, but when you said he was soaking, could mites be an issue? It happens, and it could affect his desire to eat also. Probably (hopefully) a long shot, but just to cover all the bases. BTW, he's a very handsome little fella.

 

[Jenstet]

The first day we brought him home he dove into the water dish and didn't come out until the next day. I got a little panicky because I read exactly what you suggested which is that it could be mites. I inspected him carefully before we brought him home and he didn't appear to have any. I also read they are good at hiding so what I did was.....my husband thinks I'm crazy......I strained the water he was soaking in through a white paper towel and we looked at it through a magnifying glass. I figured he would have drowned a few after all that time. I didn't see any mites. He has not soaked like he did the first day. I think it was his way of hiding. A week later during our first attempt at feeding we tried him in a bin lined with paper towel. I also checked then to be sure. I was guessing he may leave a few behind if he had them. I saw nothing.
That was also in my first call to the breeder. I asked her if she was dealing with mites. She said no....

I don't know if my method means for sure that he doesn't have them. I have never actually seen mites on a snake but I still haven't seen any indication of parasites.

 

[MysticExotics]

My house's humidity is in the single digits to the teens without use of a humidifier. I use a fogger in my reptile room just to get it to 30 to 40%
In the Northwest and Southeast states, humidity is usually a non-issue. In New England where the humidity inside the house could be 0-15% then it is prudent to get it up to a minimum of 30-35% and if misting the tank or tub is the only way to do it then it is necessary.
My comment on misting was not to disagree with your expertize in carpet pythons, only to give a New Englanders point of view on the extremely low humidity issues we have here this time of year.

My concern with using newspaper was mainly that the ambient temp could not be raised enough. The UTH thermostat will be set to a safe temp for the snake to lay on it if he crawls under the paper but the paper will cause enough of a barrier to keep the tanks ambient temp from rising high enough. Heat escapes thru aspen much easier raising the ambient temp. That was my thoughts on paper in her situation.

:cheers:

The only time they need the humidity is during the shed process if they are properly hydrated. I am well aware of the different areas that have different humidity, and have lived in a couple of them. If you are in an area that is drier, or during the winter depending on the kind of heat you use, if the snake has problems during the shed process, then yes, you would mist *during the shed process*, but it is not necessary to mist them on a regular basis when they are not in shed. That was my point.

The newspaper is not going to make that much of a difference in temps as opposed to aspen, unless you're using a thick stack of it.
Even with ambient temps, mine hide under the paper while digesting their food. That is when it is important for them to have the heat.

If the ambient temps are that cold, then possibly a second heat source (in addition, also on a t-stat) may be necessary.

Here he is looking very approachable when we first got him home.

He is a pretty little Jungle!

The first day we brought him home he dove into the water dish and didn't come out until the next day. I got a little panicky because I read exactly what you suggested which is that it could be mites. I inspected him carefully before we brought him home and he didn't appear to have any. I also read they are good at hiding so what I did was.....my husband thinks I'm crazy......I strained the water he was soaking in through a white paper towel and we looked at it through a magnifying glass. I figured he would have drowned a few after all that time. I didn't see any mites. He has not soaked like he did the first day. I think it was his way of hiding. A week later during our first attempt at feeding we tried him in a bin lined with paper towel. I also checked then to be sure. I was guessing he may leave a few behind if he had them. I saw nothing.
That was also in my first call to the breeder. I asked her if she was dealing with mites. She said no....

I don't know if my method means for sure that he doesn't have them. I have never actually seen mites on a snake but I still haven't seen any indication of parasites.

Carpets sometimes soak during a shed process, but it can be because of mites as well. I know my IJ's love water and I sometimes find them soaking just because. I'm not sure why, but I know other IJ keepers who say the same thing.
I wouldn't be concerned about it, unless it's excessive.
If you are concerned about possibly having mites, keep him on paper towels for a while, and if you have one, use a white ceramic bowl for a water dish. You will spot mites much easier if they're there.

The longer you have him, you will be able to tell when he is in shed. The opaque phase is the easiest to spot, of course, but as you get to know your snake, you will be able to notice the different phases of the shed process.

 

[ratsncorns]

My house's humidity is in the single digits to the teens without use of a humidifier. I use a fogger in my reptile room just to get it to 30 to 40%
In the Northwest and Southeast states, humidity is usually a non-issue. In New England where the humidity inside the house could be 0-15% then it is prudent to get it up to a minimum of 30-35% and if misting the tank or tub is the only way to do it then it is necessary.
My comment on misting was not to disagree with your expertize in carpet pythons, only to give a New Englanders point of view on the extremely low humidity issues we have here this time of year.

My concern with using newspaper was mainly that the ambient temp could not be raised enough. The UTH thermostat will be set to a safe temp for the snake to lay on it if he crawls under the paper but the paper will cause enough of a barrier to keep the tanks ambient temp from rising high enough. Heat escapes thru aspen much easier raising the ambient temp. That was my thoughts on paper in her situation.



:cheers:

I lived in Colorado for 7 years and it is a very arid state. The humidity was usually around 0-20% and not once did I mist my snakes cages. I never had any shedding issues with my snakes. I now live in the Mojave and Sonoran desert and still don't mist their cages. It's all personal preference, but I would agree with MysticExotics in that it's only necessary if they have noticeable shedding problems.

 

[ratsncorns]

Carpets sometimes soak during a shed process, but it can be because of mites as well. I know my IJ's love water and I sometimes find them soaking just because. I'm not sure why, but I know other IJ keepers who say the same thing.
I wouldn't be concerned about it, unless it's excessive.
If you are concerned about possibly having mites, keep him on paper towels for a while, and if you have one, use a white ceramic bowl for a water dish. You will spot mites much easier if they're there.

The longer you have him, you will be able to tell when he is in shed. The opaque phase is the easiest to spot, of course, but as you get to know your snake, you will be able to notice the different phases of the shed process.

I heard that about IJ's but not once have I seen mine in the bowl. I think it's cool to see though, my Bairdi ratsnake is always soaking in his bowl.

 

[MysticExotics]

How is he doing, Angela?

There's a book, "The Complete Carpet Python" written by Nick Mutton and Justin Julander, it's a very good book for learning more about them!

 

[Jenstet]

I did see that book on Amazon. They've been out of stock for a little while but I can get free shipping.

 

[MysticExotics]

You can contact Nick Mutton directly (InlandReptile.com) and tell him Heather sent you. (I went to highschool with him...years ago. LOL)
Nick has copies available.

 

[Nythain]

Chiming in with my own personal thanks for book recommendation. I eventually plan on getting a jungle carpet, and knowing the right literature really helps!

Also, is there any update on how this awesome little guy is doing? Guess it hasn't been long enough since last feeding attempt to really try again. Keep us updated!

 

[Jenstet]

Nothing exciting to report. I turned off the CHE yesterday so he is just on the UTH now. We are working on getting his 10 gallon ready. I had to order a smaller UTH which should arrive tomorrow and my husband is working on a cover for the tank. I'm hoping to have him in his new digs by Friday.
Interestingly, this evening he has hit the water dish again and has been soaking and swimming around for 2 hours now which is a little unusual for him. I wonder if a shed is coming. February 1st would be the next time I try to feed him giving him time to settle in his smaller viv.
We'll be hitting the expo this weekend to pick up some hoppers as Heather suggested.
I'll let you all know if anything new happens. No one else I know wants to hear our snake woes

 

[Nythain]

I love snake woes, especially when they turn from woes to whoas and wows!

 

[MysticExotics]

Nothing exciting to report. I turned off the CHE yesterday so he is just on the UTH now. We are working on getting his 10 gallon ready. I had to order a smaller UTH which should arrive tomorrow and my husband is working on a cover for the tank. I'm hoping to have him in his new digs by Friday.
Interestingly, this evening he has hit the water dish again and has been soaking and swimming around for 2 hours now which is a little unusual for him. I wonder if a shed is coming. February 1st would be the next time I try to feed him giving him time to settle in his smaller viv.
We'll be hitting the expo this weekend to pick up some hoppers as Heather suggested.
I'll let you all know if anything new happens. No one else I know wants to hear our snake woes

If you're not seeing any signs of mites, then there's a good possibility he might be going into shed.
Are you on iHerp.com? (Free online reptile tracking system). You can track all kinds of things: feeding, sheds, cleaning, breeding, lineage, photos, etc.

 

[Jenstet]

No, but I did find that site at one point.

I made spreadsheets for my son that hang on clipboards by the respective tanks. He fills them out every week keeping track of sheds, cleaning and the weights of the food he is giving. He weighs the corn snake once a month.

We wanted to change his water this morning because he had been soaking in it all night and I wanted to check again for mites. I didn't see any but there was this weird mucousy blob floating in the water. It looks a little like ureates except for the blobby stuff. It was smaller than a dime.

 

[insomniac101]

Kathy::-offtopic

12.10 Cornsnakes, 8.5 Ratsnakes, 5.7 Carpet pythons, 2.3.6 Chondros, 1.1 Ball pythons, 0.1 Hog Isle boa

Now I understand the "Insomniac" label! Holy Cow!

LOL - you know it!

I'm at work, and just skimmed over the responses. I apologize for any redundancy, but did anyone mention his being overheated as a cause for wanting to soak? They will soak to escape mites, to help a shed, and to cool off.

It sounds like you've taken steps to make him feel more secure. Hopefully, he will be really hungry when you try to feed him again.

Kathy