Incubating at Room Temperature

[CornCrazy]

I am trying to incubate at room temperature this year because I am going to have many more eggs, and do not have a place for a large incubator. Hopefully, by this time next year, I will have moved and I'll actually have a snake room, but in the meantime...

I was wondering if it will harm the eggs if the room temps drop down at night. It's been around 75 degrees inside at night and around 80 degrees during the day. Are these temps going to be OK, or do I need to figure out a way to put the eggs in an incubator?

 

[Amanda E]

Sorry, I have no experience with this, but it sounds like they will be okay at these temps. They'll just take longer to hatch you know.

 

[Clint Boyer]

I would be concerned about high temp spikes. I had some last year in my snake room and I feel it was the cause of some kinking and dead in the egg snakes. Your temps should be fine at 75-80 but as Amanda pointed out, they'll just take a bit longer.

Just use caution and watch for those high temps.

Oh.... I just realized that even using an incubator will not protect you from heat spikes. No matter how you incubate, watch for those 85 and up temps!

 

[Magic Kiwi]

Those temps should be fine, we incubated at room temp last year. Provided those are stable temps and don't actually jump above 85 or below 70. Those are danger areas and will harm your potential hatchlings.

 

[paulh]

I've had good results (up to 100% hatch, no kinks) with an incubator set on a day/night temperature cycle -- 90 F during the day, sliding down into the low to mid 70s at night. This mimics the temperature cycle on the second floor of my house before we got central air conditioning.

I would expect the eggs to hatch in a temperature range of 75-80 F. But I'd also expect the incubation time to be longer. And the babies are likely to be slightly smaller and possibly a bit harder to get to feed than babies incubated at higher temperature.

 

[WingedWolf]

Heat spikes

I'm using an insulated styrofoam cooler type incubator this year, so I should have some time if the temperature spikes (and I imagine it will, we don't have central cooling, and we baked last year). If the temperature in the house rises too high, I should have time to turn on a window air conditioning unit before the temp inside the incubator follows suit.

 

[CornCrazy]

WingedWolf,

How did you set the incubator up? I could probably find a spot for a couple of cooler incubators. I have one hovabator, that I am going to put some eggs in, but it is not large enough for all of them. I don't have room to have a bunch of hovabators sitting around. I would like to keep the temps more constant, though.

 

[Sasheena]

I don't have any experience (YET) with cornsnake eggs, but from what I understand, corn eggs and king eggs are very much the same as far as what they need to be able to hatch.

Last year I had two clutches of kingsnake eggs, one was a california king clutch, the other was an appalachicola kingsnake clutch.

The Cal king clutch did very well, but was laid almost a month before the other clutch. In fact I had to actually use an UTH to keep them to the right temperature. By the time they hatched they were just at room temperature, a nice steady 82 degrees. They hatched in 60 days.

The Appalachicola clutch had some more severe problems with temperatures. By the time they were laid temperatures were a lot warmer. Instead of wanting to keep them warm, I started having to try to keep them cool. By the time they were thirty days old, I was having trouble keeping the temperature below 86. By day 50, that struggle was finished because our AC gave up the ghost while we were away at an all-day event. By the time we came home it was hotter INDOORS than it was outdoors ... and the outdoor temperature was 110 degrees. With the family to think of, I forgot all about the eggs. We packed up and went to a hotel for the night. The next day when we returned I remembered them. (Luckily the mice and the majority of our snakes were in the one room in the house that had its own air conditioning separate from the main AC.). I brought the eggs out to that room and then opened the container, despairing of them living (it was 100 degrees inside the container). Well one of the eggs had already begun hatching! I think I was lucky, because all eight snakes hatched without any signs of trauma or distress due to the heat spike.

This year we have a more modern house and hope to have the eggs more stable. But won't bother with an incubator... no real need.

 

[WingedWolf]

Cooler incubator

I put it together without any bells and whistles--2 bricks (the kind with 3 large holes down the middle, rather than 6 small holes, which the masonry company just GAVE us because they thought it was ridiculous for anyone to buy 2 bricks... <lol>).
Styrofoam cooler--about $1.45, lol..
5-10 gallon submerseable aquarium heater, 15 bucks.
Indoor/outdoor thermometer with probe, about 15 bucks.

I just filled the cooler directly with water (put it where you want it, because you won't be moving it), slid the heater through the middle holes in the bricks, and set them down in the water. Turned it on, set a tupperware bin in on top of the bricks (should be just above the water), and put the vermiculite cups in that. Heater on, lid on, and wait 24 hours, then fiddle with the heat for a couple of days until you get it perfect (it really takes about 24 hours after each adjustment to be sure of what the temperature will hold at). Mine's holding steady at 81.1 degrees, waiting for my leopard geckos to lay.
For several days now, in spite of temperature spikes up to 80 during the day, and down to 68 at night, the temperature inside the cooler hasn't budged. Removing the lid of course drops the temp, but it goes back up quickly.

Don't use this in any high traffic areas, where it might get bumped, because those styrofoam coolers are not particularly sturdy. It's holding water fin with no leaks, but jabbing something into it would probably result in a flood. <g>

 

[oreo]

NO INCUBATOR

I have tried both and have to say I cant stand having incubators all over my house. I allready have enough crap with aquariums and breeder racks not to mention the mice racks. I decided to start keeping them at room temp. I dont care to have the house at 65 degrees so I just use some small storage boxes like my breeding racks use only smaller. I drill holes on two sides with a 1/8 drill bit using vermiculite. I stack them in the closet and shut the door. Even with a cooler going the closet is closed off from the rest of the air and stays pretty warm. I figured this out in the winter as the closets were way cooler than the rest of the house by about 15 degrees so I recorded it in the summer and balanced out at 80-85 steady. I figure that if they can hatch in the wild they can make it in my closet. Mother nature cares not about how many eggs are hanging in the hole in the tree. I still have 90-95 percent overall hatch rate and I average 350-400 babies every year. good luck with your pack.

 

[WingedWolf]

Incubators

Yeah, might be a viable idea, if I was hatching ONLY corns...but I'm hatching leopard geckos, too, and they are temperature-sexed, so I need to keep the temperatures steady to get what I want.

 

[oreo]

temp sexing

If you didnt know already corns are temp sexed as I think all reptiles that lay eggs are. if that is the case though a small ceramic heater set up on a thermostat would keep the room at temp. I have seen them in hardware stores for 30 bucks and you probably would need to get one now before they leave the market. here in the southwest its 75-80 during the day already so I wouldnt have much luck finding one.

I did this when I lived in chicago and all I did was plug the heater into the thermostat and place the temp probe in the middle of my clutch boxes to get the average. I faced the heater away from the boxes so the heat wouldnt be shut off every ten minutes due to it blowing directly on the probe. If it is kept three feet away from the wall it shouldnt have a fire potential and keep it on a square with sheet metal on top of the wood but under the heater to dissapate the heat as well. Like I said I did this in chicago and in my basement the average temps were 60 to 65 in the early summer maybe peaking at 72 mid summer. I did this in a closet there and it worked great. I hope this is easier and can work for you. If not you can always use an old refridgerator shell most can be bought for 30 bucks at an appliance repair shop and just use some radiant heat "bulbs" ( big apple herp has these) on the said temp controller. and stick that in a closet for asthetic reasons. The refridge method works great because they are insulated but it is a pain to have to take the individual tubs out to open them up for air exchange.

 

[CornCrazy]

Oreo...last I heard...corns are not temp sexed.

 

[Clint Boyer]

You are right CornCrazy, I don't think there are any snakes that are temp sexed.

 

[CornCrazy]

That's what I was thinking, Clint. I don't have much experience with most types of snakes, but I knew I had read that corns weren't temp sexed. It would be nice if they were, though...

 

[oreo]

Temp sexing

Maybe and Maybe not. I cant find any data on the temps but some years I produce mostly males and some that have 50/50 split some mostly females. I never recorded the ambient temp that was in the room for incubation and when I needed the heater and did make sure it was 80-85 I couldnt properly sex the young as I was young and just a newbie. I wouldnt risk the death of one just to think I was the master of snakes. I have only assumed that most of the difference is due to temp. Anyone that has recorded the temps can please by all means step in and either blow it out or agree on plausibility of temp. Like I said it is my best guess and couldnt see why lizards would be the only reptile to have that function. I would assume that the "hardcore" following most of you use (the 78-82 degree) would be the middle of the road for most lizard species, which would theoreticly give 50/50 results. Like I said though I would love to see one's data on an experiment like this. Say try one clutch at 70-75 and another at 80-85 if the adults are siblings like both females being sisters and both males being brothers. This would take out the genetic factor on clutch size and they would probably have similiar clutch sizes if everything was equal. I have enough experiments on breeding other than the morph of the week to add this one and when I am done this summer I look forward to letting you all know my results.

So if anyone has this info or has the required stock to be as unbiased as possible please step up.

 

[WingedWolf]

incubation temps

Leos incubate 50/50 at 85, and male at 88.
If you have been getting skewed sex rations by incubating hotter for corns, that's interesting, though. Any deformities in the high-male hatchings?

 

[oreo]

temps

Like I said I dont have solid data on this but more an assumption on the situations I have had. I also asked Don at South Mountain about his results. He stated that he typically had 50/50 results by the end of each year. He also believed to hear they are temp sexed but never recorded that data either. I just believe that it is true or if nothing else just plausible. You say at 85 its a 50/50 split and 88 mostly male. I would say that you have a fine line to cut but wouldnt worry to much. I have read that temps of 90 or better kill corn eggs I havent ever recorded any temps since I went "free air" but have to assume it has hit the 90 mark at least a couple of times. I do live in the desert. I would also assume that wild corns lay eggs in cooler areas but my parents live in atlanta and the temps get well over 90 in the summer. Granted the eggs are under cover and are slightly cooler but come on does nature care if there is eggs with requierments? I know some of you will call this out and say the hatch rates are not as good in the wild but can anyone prove that?

All in all I am not saying to you to nuke them but I cant see any harm at least trying some of the eggs at the 88 you are trying for if that is what you are trying for. Then check the hatchling for sex the best you can. As far as deformaties in my hatchlings..... I think I have only had ten total that I had to put down for humane reasons. I have had more die from them not eating for me but I am one of those guys that will try for only so long before I say **** it, starve then. I dont have the time to beg something to eat everyday. I am trying to get a couple of other guys I trust to tell me if they have any data that helps out. I will keep you guys informed on anything I find out.

 

[CornCrazy]

So if the temp thing is true, I should have mostly females? My room temps run between 75-80 degrees. I'll let you know what I get after they hatch...

 

[oreo]

corncrazy

Please do I am not sure if it would be scientific to do that but any guess would work. I cant keep my cluches at that low of a temp in the desert but I think I might buy a tattle tell thermometer if I can find one that reads for several days at a time. I would average the temp and base something on that.

Don agreed that there would have to be a little more control to it for it to be accepted scientifically but we didnt agree on the controls used.

I stated that if you used two sister females from the same clutch and two males from the same clutch you could control the enviroment as much as possible on their upbringing to an extent. Feed the same amount kept in identical conditions and so forth. breed them at the same time and keep the two clutches seperate then incubate at different temps. You would have to do this for a couple of years to average it out but it would rule out any oddities that may arise.

Don thought perhaps you should only experiment with one pair due to the differences in all the snakes causing poor data unless they were severely inbred to "purify" genetic traits. I am really interested in the outcome of said test but like I said I couldnt do it this year I have way too many projects underway.