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Interesting day at the office!
- Thread starter ecreipeoj
- Start date
Serpwidgets
New member
Re: Another new mix of genes.
(They're '03 hatch from Sunkissed X Butter Motley.)
I also look forward to seeing Sunkissed Motley. The "ambers" might be interesting, too. It'll be fun trying, anyway.
Joe, we're raising a trio of quad hets for Sunkissed, Motley, Caramel, and Amel.ecreipeoj said:
(They're '03 hatch from Sunkissed X Butter Motley.)I also look forward to seeing Sunkissed Motley. The "ambers" might be interesting, too. It'll be fun trying, anyway.
Simon
Corn Manic
Joe with all these breeding pics and eggs pics I am really drooling over what you have right now!!
You know what..
I think that I am doing something really wrong this year....
I have had around 14 clutches now and only 3 clutches were fertile...all are slugs....even last year 's proven adults with proven males are throwing slugs at me.....
I don't know why...this is really weird...last year I only had a few eggs that were slugs but not clutches...this year...11 clutches...and every fertile clutch are small clutches!!
Really must be something that I am doing that is making all these slugs...but I have been doing the same thing as last year....brumation from Dec-Feb then March breeding...and now...slugs.....sigh.....
You know what..
I think that I am doing something really wrong this year....
I have had around 14 clutches now and only 3 clutches were fertile...all are slugs....even last year 's proven adults with proven males are throwing slugs at me.....
I don't know why...this is really weird...last year I only had a few eggs that were slugs but not clutches...this year...11 clutches...and every fertile clutch are small clutches!!
Really must be something that I am doing that is making all these slugs...but I have been doing the same thing as last year....brumation from Dec-Feb then March breeding...and now...slugs.....sigh.....
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Simon
There is a thread going in the breeding section about that subject. It is called something like Why infertilite eggs .....? I have posted some of my thoughts about the subject there and many others have posted some good info as well.
I have had very good fertility in most clutches this year, but I have got my share of plugs as well. Not too many, but I haven't posted photos of my disappointments. In one of my clutches I got 5 eggs and 15 plugs, but most other plugs that I have gotten were only 2 - 5 in a clutch and a very small percentage of the total size of the clutch. 100% fertile clutches are probably not the norm and a very good sight to see.
I try to eliminate the most common causes of infertile, but no year is a perfect year. I have missed females best time to be bred this year and I have a couple of new males that I bought/traded for this spring which are giving me about 50% to 75% fertile clutches. I really don’t know what they have been through, so I am not sure why they are not doing the job. They are Bloods that I am using to start projects with, so I am not complaining about the fertility rates in those clutches. I will take 13 fertile eggs from my Blood X Lava Okeetee breeding! Even the 5 eggs from my Blood X Snow breeding will be great if they hatch out and I get a couple of females out of the group. One of my very red Amel Okeetee females just laid 30 eggs and was bred to the Amel Blood. I got 15 fertile eggs and was a little disappointed, but 15 fertile eggs from that cross will be a good one to work with.
I am hoping that the fertility rate will improve with them after some treatments with Flagel. One is very old and he may just be and old man! The other is a very fat young male that looked so healthy when I got him that I didn’t treat him. I will see if his fertility improves. I will know soon enough. So far the Bloods first clutch was very poor, only 5 good eggs, but the second one had 13 and only a few plugs, so perhaps he just need to get it flowing again. LOL
There is a thread going in the breeding section about that subject. It is called something like Why infertilite eggs .....? I have posted some of my thoughts about the subject there and many others have posted some good info as well.
I have had very good fertility in most clutches this year, but I have got my share of plugs as well. Not too many, but I haven't posted photos of my disappointments. In one of my clutches I got 5 eggs and 15 plugs, but most other plugs that I have gotten were only 2 - 5 in a clutch and a very small percentage of the total size of the clutch. 100% fertile clutches are probably not the norm and a very good sight to see.
I try to eliminate the most common causes of infertile, but no year is a perfect year. I have missed females best time to be bred this year and I have a couple of new males that I bought/traded for this spring which are giving me about 50% to 75% fertile clutches. I really don’t know what they have been through, so I am not sure why they are not doing the job. They are Bloods that I am using to start projects with, so I am not complaining about the fertility rates in those clutches. I will take 13 fertile eggs from my Blood X Lava Okeetee breeding! Even the 5 eggs from my Blood X Snow breeding will be great if they hatch out and I get a couple of females out of the group. One of my very red Amel Okeetee females just laid 30 eggs and was bred to the Amel Blood. I got 15 fertile eggs and was a little disappointed, but 15 fertile eggs from that cross will be a good one to work with.
I am hoping that the fertility rate will improve with them after some treatments with Flagel. One is very old and he may just be and old man! The other is a very fat young male that looked so healthy when I got him that I didn’t treat him. I will see if his fertility improves. I will know soon enough. So far the Bloods first clutch was very poor, only 5 good eggs, but the second one had 13 and only a few plugs, so perhaps he just need to get it flowing again. LOL
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Serpwidgets said:Joe, we're raising a trio of quad hets for Sunkissed, Motley, Caramel, and Amel.
I also look forward to seeing Sunkissed Motley. The "ambers" might be interesting, too. It'll be fun trying, anyway.
I can't wait to see your results. I think Sunkissed Lavenders would be great too and we could add Motley and Striped to the mix as well. We have a lot of spaces to fill up in your new book. I was surprised to see how many easy combos we haven't produced yet.
I am very, very lucky to have the Lavas and the Striped Lavenders going good. With all of the crosses I have made with them and the Sunkissed clutch I just got, I am hoping to begin to fill up some of your empty spaces in your book in a couple of years.
It is definitely "Fun trying" and is what is so addictive about corns for me. To set a goal, the challenge of getting to your goal, and if you happen to create a new morph before anybody else, total and complete ADDICTION! Even repeating someone else’s successes is very rewarding and produces a fairly unrelated line which we need desperately.
Simon
Corn Manic
Joe,
I definately know what you mean.
But its just really weird that I have all infertile eggs from proven females. So that is why it was really weird.
So I went and asked Don and Kathy about it. Then told me something that clicked right in....it was the temp on the under tank heater.....those pannels CAN kill sperm. So the temp might have raised so much that it has actually killed most of the sperm on my males. So I think that this is why all my females are all laying slugs. I'll try to decrease the temp a bit and try for second rounds and hopefully I'll be able to get a lot more eggs this time.
Oh I also had a weird thing happening..yesterday night while I was working, 3 of my lavenders, 1 amel het butter motley, 1 banded all started to lay at the same time...even though they were all slugs...its really weird...hahahaha
I hope that Don is right that it is the temp that is making all these infertile eggs or slugs....
I definately know what you mean.
But its just really weird that I have all infertile eggs from proven females. So that is why it was really weird.
So I went and asked Don and Kathy about it. Then told me something that clicked right in....it was the temp on the under tank heater.....those pannels CAN kill sperm. So the temp might have raised so much that it has actually killed most of the sperm on my males. So I think that this is why all my females are all laying slugs. I'll try to decrease the temp a bit and try for second rounds and hopefully I'll be able to get a lot more eggs this time.
Oh I also had a weird thing happening..yesterday night while I was working, 3 of my lavenders, 1 amel het butter motley, 1 banded all started to lay at the same time...even though they were all slugs...its really weird...hahahaha
I hope that Don is right that it is the temp that is making all these infertile eggs or slugs....
stephen
corn breeder
bummer
Sorry to hear that Simon, ummm want to let you know that I dont do anything the way the big breeders do, for many good reasons ,cause the way I do my corns work for me so why stop. well out of about 300 eggs so far this year I got about 5 slugs! while investigating surplus adults from alot of the big breeders I noticed that almost all of there adults seem to have had a % of slugs so I thought wow seems wierd,so as always from the time I take my breeders out of hibernation I put the females that I want to breed with the male I want them to breed to ,sometimes until prenatal shed ,for two reasons so they get used to eachother and so they can breed as many times as they like, during this time I kinda keep a eye on them once in awhile and if I dont think the male has not bred one of the females I will try and put her in with a alternative male,I have a 100% success rate most clutches no slugs from my candy canes laying 28 perfect eggs to my okeetee laying 30 good eggs.(largest clutches). anyway when the eggs hatch I take all the hatchlings in one container and throw in a handfull of pinks the ones that eat get seperated then I wait till after there first shed and throw another handfull of pinks ussually they eat and again they get seperated last year I incubated at about 83 degrees they took longer to hatch but 95 percent of them were good feeders! GOOD LUCK SIMON!
Sorry to hear that Simon, ummm want to let you know that I dont do anything the way the big breeders do, for many good reasons ,cause the way I do my corns work for me so why stop. well out of about 300 eggs so far this year I got about 5 slugs! while investigating surplus adults from alot of the big breeders I noticed that almost all of there adults seem to have had a % of slugs so I thought wow seems wierd,so as always from the time I take my breeders out of hibernation I put the females that I want to breed with the male I want them to breed to ,sometimes until prenatal shed ,for two reasons so they get used to eachother and so they can breed as many times as they like, during this time I kinda keep a eye on them once in awhile and if I dont think the male has not bred one of the females I will try and put her in with a alternative male,I have a 100% success rate most clutches no slugs from my candy canes laying 28 perfect eggs to my okeetee laying 30 good eggs.(largest clutches). anyway when the eggs hatch I take all the hatchlings in one container and throw in a handfull of pinks the ones that eat get seperated then I wait till after there first shed and throw another handfull of pinks ussually they eat and again they get seperated last year I incubated at about 83 degrees they took longer to hatch but 95 percent of them were good feeders! GOOD LUCK SIMON!
Simon
Corn Manic
stephen,
thanks for the thumbs up~
I too have been doing it the way that you have been doing it. Just that last year I moved to a smaller appartment so things are a bit more crowed now than before. Thus I too think that the increase in temperature has been killing all the sperms. In fact what's even worse is that now I have all my female lavender lay and all of them are slugs, my amel het butter motley lay slugs again, anery motley lay slugs again...all in just 1 day.....so I am pretty sure that it is the temperature that has changed all these supposingly fertile eggs to slugs.....
I too incubate my hatchlings at 80-85F. But not all will eat. There are always one or two of them that wont eat.
Anyway thanks for the info~
thanks for the thumbs up~
I too have been doing it the way that you have been doing it. Just that last year I moved to a smaller appartment so things are a bit more crowed now than before. Thus I too think that the increase in temperature has been killing all the sperms. In fact what's even worse is that now I have all my female lavender lay and all of them are slugs, my amel het butter motley lay slugs again, anery motley lay slugs again...all in just 1 day.....so I am pretty sure that it is the temperature that has changed all these supposingly fertile eggs to slugs.....
I too incubate my hatchlings at 80-85F. But not all will eat. There are always one or two of them that wont eat.
Anyway thanks for the info~
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Scary day at the office!
Yesterday was a scary day at the office. I have been expecting my best layer to lay any day and it had gone a couple of days passed when I thought she should lay. The night before, I noticed a huge swelling at mid length like she had eaten a rat. I felt the mass and it was full of about 12 eggs. I have never seen this before and suspected trouble.
I was relieved in the morning to see a pile of eggs in her lay box but it was obvious that she was not done laying. I checked her in about an hour and found that she had stopped laying, but had several eggs still in her. She was not contracting any more and the eggs that were left were not down by the vent, but near her middle. Great, just what I needed! Egg binding or females not passing all of their eggs is one of the things I hate about breeding corns. I get a few every year that do not pass all of their eggs.
There are a few options when this happens and I thought I had caught it in time to try Oxytocin. I took the eggs out that she had laid. She had laid 20 eggs and 8 plugs and gave her a good dose of Oxytocin and put her in a closed lay box. For those of you who are wondering, I gave her 20 mg. The recommended dose that I have seen for snakes of her size is 5 - 20 mg. I have only had success with Oxytocin in high doses so I gave her a full dose. She crawled around for about 20 minutes and settled down. I checked the box though the side and saw an egg! This was a very good sign. In about a half hour I check her again and she had laid 7 more fertile eggs and there were none left inside of her. Oxytocin doesn’t always work, but when it does it is a gift from the gods.
My best layer is getting pretty old. She is 15 years old now and has laid more eggs than any snake I have ever owned. She is looking pretty soft and flabby. Perhaps I should put her in a larger cage so she can crawl around more and take her out for a walk once in a while to strengthen up her muscles. She always double clutches and I think if I tried not to breed her she would produce plugs anyway. I think that if I tried to retire her, she is in such a routine that she would probably cycle in the spring anyway. I think I will give her some vitamins, put her in the bigger cage, and really see if a little exercise helps. I will feed her well and hope that she lives many more years.
Photo: 20 eggs and 8 plugs and 7 still inside.
Yesterday was a scary day at the office. I have been expecting my best layer to lay any day and it had gone a couple of days passed when I thought she should lay. The night before, I noticed a huge swelling at mid length like she had eaten a rat. I felt the mass and it was full of about 12 eggs. I have never seen this before and suspected trouble.
I was relieved in the morning to see a pile of eggs in her lay box but it was obvious that she was not done laying. I checked her in about an hour and found that she had stopped laying, but had several eggs still in her. She was not contracting any more and the eggs that were left were not down by the vent, but near her middle. Great, just what I needed! Egg binding or females not passing all of their eggs is one of the things I hate about breeding corns. I get a few every year that do not pass all of their eggs.
There are a few options when this happens and I thought I had caught it in time to try Oxytocin. I took the eggs out that she had laid. She had laid 20 eggs and 8 plugs and gave her a good dose of Oxytocin and put her in a closed lay box. For those of you who are wondering, I gave her 20 mg. The recommended dose that I have seen for snakes of her size is 5 - 20 mg. I have only had success with Oxytocin in high doses so I gave her a full dose. She crawled around for about 20 minutes and settled down. I checked the box though the side and saw an egg! This was a very good sign. In about a half hour I check her again and she had laid 7 more fertile eggs and there were none left inside of her. Oxytocin doesn’t always work, but when it does it is a gift from the gods.
My best layer is getting pretty old. She is 15 years old now and has laid more eggs than any snake I have ever owned. She is looking pretty soft and flabby. Perhaps I should put her in a larger cage so she can crawl around more and take her out for a walk once in a while to strengthen up her muscles. She always double clutches and I think if I tried not to breed her she would produce plugs anyway. I think that if I tried to retire her, she is in such a routine that she would probably cycle in the spring anyway. I think I will give her some vitamins, put her in the bigger cage, and really see if a little exercise helps. I will feed her well and hope that she lives many more years.
Photo: 20 eggs and 8 plugs and 7 still inside.
Attachments
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
An Oxytocin sucsess!
These eggs are a result of the breeding on page 5. She is bred to one of her grandsons that is very, very saturated with red pigment.
I am kind of hoping that she might be a carrier of a gene that is causing the saturated red and get a few more of them. If not, then perhaps the father is carring a gene causing the red pigment and since the offspring will be out of a great producing mother, then they will be a good addition to my breeding program.
The fathers red color may just need to be selectively bred for. I would really like to get his color into the Bloods. Since most Bloods are already very red, the combo could make them bleed!
These eggs are a result of the breeding on page 5. She is bred to one of her grandsons that is very, very saturated with red pigment.
I am kind of hoping that she might be a carrier of a gene that is causing the saturated red and get a few more of them. If not, then perhaps the father is carring a gene causing the red pigment and since the offspring will be out of a great producing mother, then they will be a good addition to my breeding program.
The fathers red color may just need to be selectively bred for. I would really like to get his color into the Bloods. Since most Bloods are already very red, the combo could make them bleed!
Attachments
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
This Aztec het lav/snow laid 16 good eggs today. She has always been my favorite Aztec. She is really different from my others. She was bred to a Lavender het amel that is partially Aztec, so hopefully I will get some more with her pattern and color. The photo is kind of dark, but she seems to be a richly colored Aztec Miami phase.
Attachments
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Is there a Lava Lavender in there!?
I have been anxiously awaiting this clutch. 14 good eggs from my Hets for Lava/Lavender. Her sister is opaque now so hopefully she will lay as many eggs and the odds look good to see at least one Lava Lavender this year. I will be keeping my fingers crossed to see more than one Lava Lavender this year
I have been anxiously awaiting this clutch. 14 good eggs from my Hets for Lava/Lavender. Her sister is opaque now so hopefully she will lay as many eggs and the odds look good to see at least one Lava Lavender this year. I will be keeping my fingers crossed to see more than one Lava Lavender this year
Attachments
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
These eggs are from a breeding of Het Lava Lavender poss het snow, so we will see what comes out. I started some Hets for Striped Lava Lavender that are poss het amel this year as well. The female Lava Okeetee is in her lay box at this time and she is looking good. The eggs from her will not have the Anery A gene in the mix and may not have the amel gene in them either. I will know by some of my other breedings. Some Hets for Striped Lava Lavender and nothing else will be a very welcome sight.
Attachments
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Simon said:
I was pleased with this girls first clutch. The eggs are actually normal sized and perhaps on the small side, they just look big next to her. She is in a little 8” X 8 “ Tupperware container. She wasn’t nearly as big as she could have been in the fall, so when she came up this spring, I really power fed her like I use to do when I only had a few snakes. I had a day glow sticker on her cage and her sisters cage to remind me that they were to get treated special.
She grew before my eyes and the results were rewarding. These healthy eggs show that she got everything that she needed. The outcrossed corns from the projects I have started have been a dream to work with. They have been excellent eaters, grew very rapidly and produced practically all fertile eggs. Outcrossed vigor is very refreshing compared to some of the inbred problems that we sometimes see.
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Hets for Striped Lava Lavenders!
I have really been hoping to get some fertile eggs from this Lava Okeetee, which was bred to one of my Striped Lavenders. Fertility was not good, but 9 eggs is 9 eggs. They look good and hopefully they will hatch out and I will have a few of each sex in the clutch. Oh let me see, let it be 2.7 please! LOL She also laid 11 plugs.
I would have to blame the infertility on me. The little male has been almost perfect so far and the female laid 16 fertile eggs last year and no plugs. Bad timing, I would guess. I probably didn’t let the little guy have enough rest, before he got together with her. I never did catch them breeding, but they obviously did the deed. Perhaps he just didn’t like her much, but she talked him into it or it was the other way around.
This clutch got me thinking that if I can get the Striped Lavenders bred to a Hypo and a Sunkissed on the second go round, I would have hets for Striped Lavender and three different hypo genes. The Hypo Striped Lavenders that Steve Roylance produced are very nice and I would love to reproduce his efforts.
This brought up another thought, that when people do reproduce someone else’s new morph, they may not be exactly the same. Lavenders vary so much, especially in the pink category, that Hypo Striped Lavenders from different lines, may vary just as much as the Lavenders. Fairly unrelated Hypo Striped Lavenders would be a very good thing!
I have really been hoping to get some fertile eggs from this Lava Okeetee, which was bred to one of my Striped Lavenders. Fertility was not good, but 9 eggs is 9 eggs. They look good and hopefully they will hatch out and I will have a few of each sex in the clutch. Oh let me see, let it be 2.7 please! LOL She also laid 11 plugs.
I would have to blame the infertility on me. The little male has been almost perfect so far and the female laid 16 fertile eggs last year and no plugs. Bad timing, I would guess. I probably didn’t let the little guy have enough rest, before he got together with her. I never did catch them breeding, but they obviously did the deed. Perhaps he just didn’t like her much, but she talked him into it or it was the other way around.
This clutch got me thinking that if I can get the Striped Lavenders bred to a Hypo and a Sunkissed on the second go round, I would have hets for Striped Lavender and three different hypo genes. The Hypo Striped Lavenders that Steve Roylance produced are very nice and I would love to reproduce his efforts.
This brought up another thought, that when people do reproduce someone else’s new morph, they may not be exactly the same. Lavenders vary so much, especially in the pink category, that Hypo Striped Lavenders from different lines, may vary just as much as the Lavenders. Fairly unrelated Hypo Striped Lavenders would be a very good thing!
