• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Killing Mice by drowning

Capt O

New member
I read several threads about killing feeder. Most in this forum agree that killing by CO2 is probably the most humane way. I could not find any info about drowning mice in a small container. Is there any objection to it ? I do not want to be cruel to animals. Couldn't find any info on the internet. As the mice will then swollow water could it be harmful for the snake in any way ? :uhoh:

Olaf
1.0 normal , 0.1 normal ( hypo ? ) corn
 
Eh, I'd prefer gas, Water seems too cruel in my opinion. I'd stay with the gas mainly because it is used most commonly and is probably the most humane way as of yet.
 
Drowning would be very cruel. If you can't find CO2 get dry ice, a lot of stores sell it. You can put some in the bottom of a bucket, add a little water, and put the mice in a container in there. They die quickly like this. Drowning is slow and the animal is desperately trying to stay above water until it can't struggle and its last moments are horror.
 
Drowning would be quite cruel. Dry ice is so easy to get ahold of as are C02 canisters. It's much faster to euthanise that way and less painful and terrifying for the mice.
 
Are you serious? Amazing.

Yes, I am serious ! Why do you reply if you do not try to answer my question ? :uhoh:

1st, I live in Thailand and it is not that easy to buy dry ice. 2nd I read several interesting article about humans who came very close to drowning ( swollowed lots of water !! ) and all said it was not really an unpleasant experience ! I know it is hard to believe, but......By drowning I do not mean that I let them swim until they are running out of steam, but rather press them under water so they instantly swollow water and die. Do you really think this is more cruel than dislocating their necks or smack them in a bag ?? Or live feeding ? Gasing them reminds me too much of the 3rd Reich.....

Actually my question is whether the extra water in the mouse could hurt my snake in any way.....

Olaf
Never been cruel to animals !!
 
Drowning would be very cruel. If you can't find CO2 get dry ice, a lot of stores sell it. You can put some in the bottom of a bucket, add a little water, and put the mice in a container in there. They die quickly like this. Drowning is slow and the animal is desperately trying to stay above water until it can't struggle and its last moments are horror.

Hi Jen,

Thanks for your reply.:wavey:

I press them under water and they immediately swollow water, become unconscious and then die within 2-3 minutes. What is so more cruel about it than the other proposed killing methods ?? Gasing them reminds me of gas chambers and I do not believe that it is more human than drowning.

Do you think the extra water is harmful to my snake ?

Olaf
 
Drowning would be quite cruel. Dry ice is so easy to get ahold of as are C02 canisters. It's much faster to euthanise that way and less painful and terrifying for the mice.

Pls see my other replies below. Why is it less painful to gas them than drowning ? Swollowing water and then becoming unconsious does not hurt.

Olaf
 
Sure, I drown my frozen mice to thaw them out all of the time. I wouldn't do it with LIVE mice, though. Drowning is not a painless way to die. Even I'm a little horrified by the suggestion. If you can't get CO2, euthanize them via cervical separation. That's another approved method, and it MUCH faster than drowning. If you think they immediately inhale water, you are so far off base it isn't funny. They will tend to avoid inhaling water as long as possible - just like the natural instinct that you and all other mammals have - hence why it takes them 2-3 minutes to die. ....and trust me that they are struggling to get to air the entire time. Cruel and heartless....especially when cervical separation (break their neck completely, in other words) IS a fast death and so easy to do.

If YOU can't stomach doing the cervical separation, then buy frozen or get out of snakes. The drowning thing is just a horrible idea.
KJ
 
The Public Health Service Policy on Humane Care and Use of Laboratory Animals, Animal Welfare Act and the Guide for the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals require the IACUC to review and approve the proposed methods of euthanasia. The proposed methods must be consistent with the recommendations of the 2000 Report of the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Panel on Euthanasia, or succeeding revised editions, unless there are scientific justifications for alternative methods. The AVMA Panel categorizes each method of euthanasia as acceptable (methods which consistently produce a humane death when used as the sole means of euthanasia), conditionally acceptable (methods which by the nature of the technique or because of greater potential for operator error or safety hazards might not consistently produce humane death or are methods not well documented in the scientific literature) and unacceptable (methods deemed inhumane under any conditions or that the panel found posed a substantial risk to the human applying the technique).

Euthanasia is the act of humanely killing animals by methods that induce rapid unconsciousness and death without pain or distress. In evaluating the appropriateness of methods, some of the criteria that should be considered are ability to induce loss of consciousness and death while minimizing animal pain, distress, or anxiety; reliability; irreversibility; time required to induce unconsciousness; species and age limitations; compatibility with research objectives; and safety of and emotional effect on personnel.

Unacceptable Methods

Air embolism - Air embolism may be accompanied by convulsions, opisthotomus, and vocalization. If used, it should be done only in anesthetized animals.

Blow to the head - Unacceptable for most species.

Burning - Chemical or thermal burning of an animal is not an acceptable method of euthanasia.

Chloral hydrate - Unacceptable in small mammals.

Chloroform - Chloroform is a known hepatotoxin and suspected carcinogen and, therefore, is extremely hazardous to personnel.

Cyanide - Cyanide poses an extreme danger to personnel and the manner of death is aesthetically objectionable.

Decompression - Decompression is unacceptable for euthanasia because of numerous disadvantages including:
Many chambers are designed to produce decompression at a rate 15 to 60 times faster than that recommended as optimum for animals, resulting in pain and distress attributable to expanding gases trapped in body cavities.
Immature animals are tolerant of hypoxia, and longer periods of decompression are required before respiration ceases.
Accidental recompression, with recovery of injured animals, can occur.
Bleeding, vomiting, convulsions, urination, and defecation, which are aesthetically unpleasant, may develop in unconscious animals.

Drowning - Drowning is not a means of euthanasia and is inhumane.

Exsanguination - Because of the anxiety associated with extreme hypovolemia, exsanguination should be done only in sedated, stunned, or anesthetized animals.

Formalin - Direct immersion of an animal into formalin, as a means of euthanasia, is inhumane.

Household products and solvents - Acetone, quaternary compounds (including CCl4), laxatives, clove oil, dimethylketone, quaternary ammonium products (i.e. Roccal D Plus), antacids, and other commercial and household products or solvents are not acceptable agents for euthanasia.

Hypothermia - Hypothermia is not an appropriate method of euthanasia.

Neuromuscular blocking agents (nicotine, magnesium sulfate, potassium chloride, all curariform agents) - When used alone, these drugs all cause respiratory arrest before loss of consciousness, so the animal may perceive pain and distress after it is immobilized.

Rapid Freezing - Rapid freezing as a sole means of euthanasia is not considered to be humane. If used, animals should be anesthetized prior to freezing.

Strychnine - Strychnine causes violent convulsions and painful muscle contraction.

Stunning - Stunning may render an animal unconscious, but it is not a method of euthanasia (except for neonatal animals with thin craniums). If used, it must be immediately followed by a method that ensures death.

Source: http://www.siu.edu/~iacuc/ROD_EUTH.HTML#UN
 
Hi Nanci,

Thank you very much for your reply. Finally I get facts rather than emotional and personal opinions. So I will switch to CO2 !

Olaf
:wavey:
 
If YOU can't stomach doing the cervical separation, then buy frozen or get out of snakes. The drowning thing is just a horrible idea.
KJ[/QUOTE]

Who said I can not stomach cervical seperation ? Sorry, but YOU missed my point completely......

Olaf
 
Pls see my other replies below. Why is it less painful to gas them than drowning ? Swollowing water and then becoming unconsious does not hurt.

Olaf

I would suggest going out and try the drowning thing before passing judgment on it. As someone who almost drowned, I can assure you that it is not painless. It had been suggested to me as a way to help the barn cats with the mice and I couldn't do it because of those memories.
 
i think drowning is one off the most painfull deaths you can experience. if you can't find gas or dry ice you should look for a ''better'' way. but i think drowning is very painfull. but i understand killing an animal without pain is impossible.
 
Who said I can not stomach cervical seperation ? Sorry, but YOU missed my point completely......


I said IF - not that you can not! I was precluded the most common argument people have against cervical separation. I didn't know or care if you had a problem with cervical separation. Your problem, however, was that you weren't getting the answer that you WANTED to hear, so you were disregarding what people were telling you.

KJ
 
I said IF - not that you can not! I was precluded the most common argument people have against cervical separation. I didn't know or care if you had a problem with cervical separation. Your problem, however, was that you weren't getting the answer that you WANTED to hear, so you were disregarding what people were telling you.

KJ

Dear KJ,

Let's not split hairs here. However, I was expecting answers with substance ( see Nanci's reply ) rather than emotional bla bla. I am a sailor and I came close to drowning on a couple of occasions. Once you get water in your lungs it is actually not too bad. Just the struggle before to keep your breath is a bit frightening. I understand not all people are the same and the idea of drowning freaks out a lot of non-ocean going people.:uhoh:

Peace / Olaf
:dancer:
 
if u can not find dry ice or co2 or what ever freezing them is the best/cheapest way
2 do it and u dont have to freeze em solid! 15 mins (depending on size) should do the trick?but remember to thaw them out before feeding to your snake as this can be harmful...
 
I'm going to agree that, if CO2 is hard to get then breaking their neck is the fastest and most painless way to kill mice. It's not hard either, except possibly in pinkies.
When I used to breed feeder mice I remember it being VERY hard to kill pinkies... even CO2 takes a long time because they are quite tolerant to hypoxia (probably because they still have fetal hemoglobin circulating which binds O2 better than adult hemoglobin, enabling the fetus to get O2 from mom's blood)
 
If you don't have co2 avalable and aren't sure about breaking the necks (it takes a few times to get it right) I would say to hold the mouse by the base of the tail and throw it to the floor really hard, they shake for a little bit and are dead in a matter of 10 seconds. I am not saying it is a completly humane or politicly corret thing to do but it will kill them quick and if I had to be offed in any of the ways we euthanise our prey that is what I would pick for myself.
 
Back
Top