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Kinda sad rant

B

BugZ

New member
So I had not planned ahead, and I ran out of feeders for my 6mo, Ssscience. I asked my mom to grab some frozen mice for me because I had exams all day yesterday. I get home to a little brown paper baggie on the table. Apparently the shop she went to had no frozen mice, so she decided to buy baby rat pups(live). I love ratties, I have had many pet rats, and so I had zero desire to feed these little guys to my snake. I have bottle raised baby rats before(SO much work), so I figured I would be miserable for a while, but I would bottle raise them. Only, I just moved and have no milk replacer on hand at the moment. :(

I wrestled with it, but I ended up having to put the babies in the freezer. :( I called her this morning and chewed her out. Poor baby ratties. :crying:

But at least Ssscience has food. :/
 
Sorry that you had to do that. Are they the right size for your snake? My girl is already two years old and I wouldn't feed her a rat pup yet.
 
They are too big, but not by all that much. By pups, I mean rat pinkies. Going to feed her multiples of mouse pinks until I hit the shop, tho. The rat pups I'll give her once she is a bit bigger.

Thankfully I have pinks on hand for my other snake.
 
Wow. There is a post on how to humanely euthanize mice and rats here on the forum, to let them slowly freeze to death is pure cruelty. Sorry, but this makes me sick.
 
I euthanize any rodent with fur or open eyes with CO2. Anything under a few days old goes in the freezer. A pink rat is so small, it will lose body heat very quickly, and it takes a LONG time to kill pinks with CO2 -I've tried. There are lots of varying opinions on putting down newborn mice and rats, here is some reading: http://www.fancymice.info/euthanasiacait.htm
 
I just froze some live pinks the other day. Ran out if pinkies and had to buy some. I think freezing is humane for pinkies. Honestly no method is perfect but it is the food chain.
 
ashleynicole said:
I just froze some live pinks the other day. Ran out if pinkies and had to buy some. I think freezing is humane for pinkies. Honestly no method is perfect but it is the food chain.
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Freezing in an extremely inhumane way to kill a warm-blooded animal. CO2 is most commonly used for rodents.
 
Still think cervical dislocation is the easiest way for a small amount of rodents. I couldn't kill rats though. I like them too much.
 
TyeW said:
Freezing in an extremely inhumane way to kill a warm-blooded animal. CO2 is most commonly used for rodents.
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I disagree. With grown mice, sure freezing would be horrible, but have you ever tried to CO2 pinkies? Takes forever, and they turn blue after about 20 minutes, and are still kicking. I'll freeze anything so young it doesn't have hair every time. With the tiny mass, they lose body heat very quickly. Since we are feeding these to other animals, we are limited in methods we can use, and pinks are too small and delicate to cervically dislocate.
 
I don't care much about them eating mice and rats. My issue would be feeding a larger snake live rabbits. lol That would be a gut wrencher.
 
Wow. Wow. Wow wow wow. Wooooooow. The amount of backlash I have gotten, calling me cruel for feeling terrible about euthanizing pinkie rats in the most humane way. Wow. Wooooow. You think maybe you are the cruel one? Freezing is the most humane way to put down a pinkie. Period. Way more humane than waiting for them to starve or chill to death. Or trying co2 or cervical dislocation. Not only do I have extensive experience raising and humanely dispatching mice, but I am a scientist. I know what I am talking about. Attacking someone who feels bad and did the right thing is not an ok thing to do. Period.
 
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BugZ said:
Wow. Wow. Wow wow wow. Wooooooow. The amount of backlash I have gotten, calling me cruel for feeling terrible about euthanizing pinkie rats in the most humane way. Wow. Wooooow. You think maybe you are the cruel one? Freezing is the most humane way to put down a pinkie. Period. Way more humane than waiting for them to starve or chill to death. Or trying co2 or cervical dislocation. Not only do I have extensive experience raising and humanely dispatching mice, but I am a scientist. I know what the eff I am talking about. Attacking someone who feels bad and did the right thing is not an ok thing to do. Period.
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Yeah... it's a hot topic and has been for a long time. I choose to freeze hairless mice and use Co2 for anything else. I've raised mice for over 10 years now and I've done a lot of research on the topic of euthanizing mice. Almost everything I've read on the topic says the most humane way to put down a pinkie is by freezing it.
 
No matter how you guys put them down, it is better than getting eaten alive by a snake. lol Freezing is a pretty humane way to go. No one is attacking you. They just have different opinions on it.
 
I've always seen the reccomendation to freeze pinkies as well... don't know why I got flamed for mentioning it.. of course I meant hairless... that's why I said pinkies.
 
I freeze mice pinkies. I have pet rats and I am like you, I can't feed them to my snakes. I also like the mice, just not like I like the rats. So far, I am having a difficult time getting many mice though. I find I have to order frozen in. Really, feeding my snakes little mice is difficult for me personally. I would rather they ate a version of 'snake chow'. Since they don't, I have to squirm a little. You have a warm heart. Don't beat your self up. I think it is good that you and everyone else on here are so thoughtful and try so hard not to see the little guys suffer.
 
BugZ said:
Wow. Wow. Wow wow wow. Wooooooow. The amount of backlash I have gotten, calling me cruel for feeling terrible about euthanizing pinkie rats in the most humane way. Wow. Wooooow. You think maybe you are the cruel one? Freezing is the most humane way to put down a pinkie. Period. Way more humane than waiting for them to starve or chill to death. Or trying co2 or cervical dislocation. Not only do I have extensive experience raising and humanely dispatching mice, but I am a scientist. I know what the eff I am talking about. Attacking someone who feels bad and did the right thing is not an ok thing to do. Period.
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You're a scientist? What field are you in? I've spoken with associate biology professors that told me never to freeze a warm blooded animal... I'd be interested in seeing some studies showing the opposite.
 
I'm not "flaming" or attacking anyone, I just am curious as to what the truth is. If anyone could share any peer-reviewed papers and data that'd be great. If freezing pinkies truly is humane then that's great and very efficient.
 
I work with mice and rats everyday and we have to follow laws/rules/guidelines, including the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) guidelines for euthanasia. Here's a little excerpt talking specifically about neonates/5 days and younger pinkies.

S2.2.4.2.2 Physical Methods
Hypothermia—The gradual cooling of fetuses and altricial neonates is acceptable with conditions. As cold surfaces can cause tissue damage and presumably pain, the animals should not come in direct contact with ice or precooled surfaces. Hypothermia for anesthesia is not recommended after approximately 7 days of age. Therefore, it is also an unacceptable euthanasia method in animals older than this age. Fetuses that are believed to be unconscious and altricial neonates < 5 days of age that do not have sufficient nervous system development to perceive pain may be quickly killed by rapidly freezing in liquid N2.

Decapitation—Decapitation using scissors or sharp blades is acceptable with conditions for altricial neonates (< 7 days of age). Some rodent neonates, whether atricial or precocial, may have a tissue mass that is too large for some scissors. Consideration should be given to the potential of pain from tissue crushing as well as to personnel safety. When appropriate, another method should be selected or an adult decapitator used.

Cervical dislocation—Cervical dislocation by pinching and disrupting the spinal cord in the high cervical region is acceptable with conditions for fetal and neonatal mice and rats.
 
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