Kinda sad rant

[Todd120]

They all sound quite pleasant. Lol. Hypothermia sounds much better than decapitation to me. It doesn't hurt. But, I have never been close to death from it. It might hurt more at the end. I doubt it though. The shakes were the worst part.

 

[albertagirl]

I'm late to this party!! But here's my two cents from reading this "touchy-subject" thread:

When you order frozen mice from large producers, does anyone know what methods they use? (I actually would like to know.) Does anyone check into this and refuse to purchase from certain producers due to their euthanization methods? I know I haven't asked. I also have used mouse traps in the past (the spring-loaded kind) which doesn't always look like a fast death, but how else do you get non-domesticated mice out of your house? (again, I would actually like to know.) I wonder if we are all as strict in our own choices (though the death may be less "personal") as we are in our expectations of others?

I know it's slightly off topic, but I sometimes wonder if people know how OUR food is raised and killed? I kind of prickle at anyone who judges others but then eats commercially produced meats. I don't know anyone here well enough to know if they are in a position to judge, but I know I'm not. I see such harsh comments every time this topic comes up, when perhaps education and discussion would go farther than judgements and criticisms. Strong reactions aside, we are all here for our love of animals, and to learn from and support each other, right? It seems to me like sometimes we forget that.

 

[flamekitty84]

well since this popped up in my feed, I only buy my mice from RodentPro who claim to euthanize their stock by Co2, which is why I chose them.
^ and to respond to the topic above me, I am a vegetarian for this exact reason. our meat sources arent killed humanely, and I choose not to eat that stuff
but people are going to do what they are going to do, whether u tell them that ur way is right or not. I dont tell ppl they are wrong for eating meat just because I choose not to, nor will I tell ppl not to freeze their mice because I wont.
I honestly dont know much about the scientific part of this, but if they havnt got the nerves to feel themselves being frozen, then whats the harm? better than being eaten alive id say...or cut in half....

 

[alice]

My Ra is up to frozen medium mice he is so tame and friendly
I just love him


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[DuxorW]

Rats and mice under two weeks of age can be humanely euthanized in the freezer. It is painless for them at this age because they cannot regulate their body temperature and they lose consciousness rapidly. I work in a research lab that uses rodents and this is the method we are required to use on animals of this age. So if they were really rat pinks you euthanized them properly. But sorry that you had to do it

 

[DuxorW]

Not only do I have extensive experience raising and humanely dispatching mice, but I am a scientist. I know what I am talking about. Attacking someone who feels bad and did the right thing is not an ok thing to do. Period.

Oops, I didn't read this far, I guess you already knew this was the appropriate method! And agreed.

 

[TyeW]

I work with mice and rats everyday and we have to follow laws/rules/guidelines, including the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) guidelines for euthanasia. Here's a little excerpt talking specifically about neonates/5 days and younger pinkies.

S2.2.4.2.2 Physical Methods
Hypothermia—The gradual cooling of fetuses and altricial neonates is acceptable with conditions. As cold surfaces can cause tissue damage and presumably pain, the animals should not come in direct contact with ice or precooled surfaces. Hypothermia for anesthesia is not recommended after approximately 7 days of age. Therefore, it is also an unacceptable euthanasia method in animals older than this age. Fetuses that are believed to be unconscious and altricial neonates < 5 days of age that do not have sufficient nervous system development to perceive pain may be quickly killed by rapidly freezing in liquid N2.

Decapitation—Decapitation using scissors or sharp blades is acceptable with conditions for altricial neonates (< 7 days of age). Some rodent neonates, whether atricial or precocial, may have a tissue mass that is too large for some scissors. Consideration should be given to the potential of pain from tissue crushing as well as to personnel safety. When appropriate, another method should be selected or an adult decapitator used.

Cervical dislocation—Cervical dislocation by pinching and disrupting the spinal cord in the high cervical region is acceptable with conditions for fetal and neonatal mice and rats.

Thanks for sharing. I knew about the other two methods but never freezing. Any idea why nobody publishes anything about freezing neonates? I couldn't find any articles or research. It just seems like it would be more of a slow, aching death. The stuff I have read seems to recommend CO2 for anything under 300g or so.

 

[TyeW]

Rats and mice under two weeks of age can be humanely euthanized in the freezer. It is painless for them at this age because they cannot regulate their body temperature and they lose consciousness rapidly. I work in a research lab that uses rodents and this is the method we are required to use on animals of this age. So if they were really rat pinks you euthanized them properly. But sorry that you had to do it

I don't work with rodents at all, but wouldn't rat pups be older than 2 weeks if they are already weaned at 3 weeks?

 

[Chip]

Pups are nursing. If they were mice, they would be called peach fuzzy.

 

[snowpig]

Of what we were told by lab vets/vet staff was that 5 days and younger mice (pinkies), when put in the freezer, the cold acts as a sort of anesthesia which happens pretty fast and then death from hypothermia. I think of it like when athletes spray that cold spray on for example on their ankle because of an injury .. takes away the pain. Freezer is a "prolonged cold spray". We place babies on a series of paper towels so they are not directly immediately touching any cold surface.

With CO2 chambers, the flow rate should be set to fill up 10-20% volume of the chamber per minute. I've seen the rate set way too high before and you can see the mice jump and panic. So from what I've learned, 6-7 days older and up, CO2 is the easiest and humane way of euthanasia, if the correct flow rate is used.

 

[Kaifyre]

I use Layne Labs and on their website it says that all of their mice are flash frozen. I honestly don't see how it matters for pinkies, since as stated previously they can't thermoregulate etc. I live in eastern Montana where winter temps frequently get below -40. I can tell you from experience, after a very short while exposed to that kind of cold, you can't feel ANYTHING. The burn comes later, when you're trying to de-ice yourself. : )

-- Kai