Legalities of cross-border shipping?

[Rigby & Marcy]

(oh also not seeing a link)

 

[TyeW]

Oh, that's my preference for sure, I just haven't seen much beyond normals and amels here in Winnipeg, and shipping in Canada is crazy expensive!

Unfortunately the clutch that I was looking to get snow stripes and snow Motleys ended up being 22 duds. I will only have snows, amels, aneries, and normals this year again. Unless of course there were some hidden hets, which has happened to me before.

There's quite a few great colubrid breeders in canada, including people who have responded to this thread! 5 star serpents, crazy colubrids, genesis pythons, Montreal tessera, etc.

 

[TyeW]

You're right about shipping though, its at least $85 to ship a small package. Its good to order with others, so ask around before you place your order.

As for mice in Winnipeg, send me a PM and I can get you a cheaper hook up.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[5 Star Serpents]

(oh also not seeing a link)

The link is in the word "HERE" if you scroll over it, it will light up and you can click it.

I appreciate people who do check into things and do them legally. I agree shipping in Canada does suck, the courier companies have very different rules than they do for our neighbors to the South, Sam however has done us all an excellent service by going to these companies who CAN make it easier for us at least and going through the proper channels so that the service is even available. The $85-$120 shipping fees though are quite reasonable though I think, if it means finding that perfect animal for your collection, be it pet or future breeder. We work with our customers to see if anyone else in a relatively close area to you is also placing an order so that we can combine shipping for people to make it a bit easier and cheaper for everyone! I won't even tell you what my costs are per year for shipping and importing :blowup: I will say that it is worth EVERY penny to have the collection I do though

Do be VERY careful though, and ask around, there have been a handful of Canadian breeders that have lost their entire collections to crypto or had large numbers of loses due to it, ask LOTS of questions of the breeder you are purchasing from regardless of which side of the border you decide is right for you

 

[5 Star Serpents]

Other breeders include Squamish Serpents (Katia Grondin), Carlie...I will have to get you her last name as it is eluding me at the moment...I know there are more but it's late!

 

[LittleFrog]

The link is in the word "HERE" if you scroll over it, it will light up and you can click it.

I appreciate people who do check into things and do them legally. I agree shipping in Canada does suck, the courier companies have very different rules than they do for our neighbors to the South, Sam however has done us all an excellent service by going to these companies who CAN make it easier for us at least and going through the proper channels so that the service is even available. The $85-$120 shipping fees though are quite reasonable though I think, if it means finding that perfect animal for your collection, be it pet or future breeder. We work with our customers to see if anyone else in a relatively close area to you is also placing an order so that we can combine shipping for people to make it a bit easier and cheaper for everyone! I won't even tell you what my costs are per year for shipping and importing :blowup: I will say that it is worth EVERY penny to have the collection I do though

Do be VERY careful though, and ask around, there have been a handful of Canadian breeders that have lost their entire collections to crypto or had large numbers of loses due to it, ask LOTS of questions of the breeder you are purchasing from regardless of which side of the border you decide is right for you

That is very true, just feels painful to pay as much or more for the shipping than the snake, lol, especially on my tight budget! But you are right, better to save a little longer and get the snake I really want from a great breeder. I wish I knew other people who were into snakes who could go in together with me on an order, but sadly, I've yet to meet anyone else here interested in keeping snakes.

 

[LittleFrog]

Do be VERY careful though, and ask around, there have been a handful of Canadian breeders that have lost their entire collections to crypto or had large numbers of loses due to it, ask LOTS of questions of the breeder you are purchasing from regardless of which side of the border you decide is right for you

Oh, I will! After some of the horror stories I read last night on the BOI, I will be VERY careful who I get future snakes from!

 

[LittleFrog]

5 Star Serpents, I was just on your website and looking at your gallery and saw this guy/girl, what morph is it, it's gorgeous!

 

[TyeW]

Other breeders include Squamish Serpents (Katia Grondin), Carlie...I will have to get you her last name as it is eluding me at the moment...I know there are more but it's late!

Ah yes I forgot Squamish serpents! Good call.

 

[TyeW]

That is very true, just feels painful to pay as much or more for the shipping than the snake, lol, especially on my tight budget! But you are right, better to save a little longer and get the snake I really want from a great breeder. I wish I knew other people who were into snakes who could go in together with me on an order, but sadly, I've yet to meet anyone else here interested in keeping snakes.

You could always shoot me a message. Depending where you buy from, I might be interested.

 

[LittleFrog]

You could always shoot me a message. Depending where you buy from, I might be interested.

Thank you, I will! It'll probably be a little while yet before I'm ready for another snake, but I'll definitely contact you when I do!

 

[Rich Z]

Quite honestly, I often sold animals to Canadians who would come into the USA to actually take delivery of the animals. I told them that as long as I was shipping to a USA address, what that person did with the animals after taking delivery of them, which then became THEIR personal property, was no longer my responsibility nor under my control. As long as they were willing to accept delivery under those terms, then I would ship to them in that manner.

YMMV today, of course.

 

[LittleFrog]

Ohh, just discovered anery vanishing stripes, and I'm in LOVE! What are the odds of finding this morph in Canada?

 

[Reptile Express]

I got Terri's email regarding this post, and I'd be happy to provide details on exports to Canada. I'll go through them individually.

Oh cool, so I found this: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals...-and-reptiles/eng/1326658752555/1326658911065
"Amphibians and reptiles (excluding turtles and tortoises) are not regulated under the Health of Animals Regulations (other than Part XII that regulates the transport of all animals). As a result, there is no Canadian Food Inspection Agency requirement to obtain an import permit, nor a health certificate. Under normal circumstances, there are no border inspections."

I guess it would be a case of finding suitable transport.

That is Canadian law. With regards to Canada, no inspection is required for reptiles (excluding chelonians), and no import/export license is required.

But many people seem to forget that when you are doing an international trade, that you have to comply with two countries laws. Most ppl seem to be looking at Canadian law.

When you look at US Federal law via US Fish & Wildlife service they are very clear that they require an inspection to take place whether the animal is a "pet" or the purpose of the trade is a "commercial" one.
USFWS service wants to inspect each and every animal and animal products (bone/skin etc), whether it is coming IN or OUT of the USA, whether they are CITES or Non-CITES species.
Absolutely all of it. No exceptions.

The wildlife declaration form (3-177) form must be filled out by the person going through inspections at the border, and the form must be stamped "CLEARED" by the officer. Otherwise it's a useless document. If you cross the border without the stamp, you have now smuggled wildlife across int'l borders under US Federal Law.

This document must then be presented to Canada Customs upon declaration showing that US law was followed through with.
Canada Customs communication between USFWS and themselves has improved greatly, and they are super fast at it. It amazes me how fast they've become! I have heard of them sending individuals back into the US for not having the 3-177 stamped. It is super stressful and costly at that point. Not to mention the hours spent in the interrogation room is very stressful.

The individual going through inspections must have their import/export license.
Also, if they are importing/exporting CITES species at the border, they will need what's called an Exception to Designated Port Permit. This is because non of the border ports are designated. Having this extra permit, makes that port "act" as a designated port for you.

The cost for non-CITES inspection at any int'l border: $186USD
The cost for CITES inspection at any int'l border: $331USD

-Sam

 

[LittleFrog]

Thank you for the info, that is very helpful!

 

[Reptile Express]

I understand Canada's regulations for a person residing in Canada who wishes to drive to the US, purchase a non-CITES snake for use as a personal pet, and return through Canadian Customs with it, having spoken to the Animal Health division of Canadian Food Inspection Agency in person. My question is, do I need a USFWS export permit, to sell one (or a few?) non-CITES P. gutattus to a person in Canada, who would pick up at a US-side FedEx (me being a certified FedEx live reptile shipper, following all rules and labeling regulations and providing a bill of sale and documentation of the US captive-bred status of the animal)? If so, what is the procedure after the buyer picks up the animal in the US- do they need to have it inspected by US Customs at the border port, to leave the US? And if so, then does the $93 fee apply, and how is that paid- at the time of inspection? I am speaking, again, of one or a few P. gutattus, to be used as personal pets by the buyer.

Again, that'd be Canadian law which has very little to no restrictions on reptile imports/exports.

With US law, an import/export license is required even for non-CITES species. This registers you in the system by the USFWS, because they want you to keep detailed files at your location. And they want to know what that location is, incase they do any surprise inspections of your paperwork. They have the legal authority to do so at any given time. This is why they want individuals to get their I/E license.

If you send a wildlife package to a UPS/FedEx at a border port, and have your Canadian client pick up on the US side, you have now placed the full onus and responsibility on them, as they'd be the one that'd have to go through an inspection. If your Canadian client is not well versed in what is required by USFWS they will be in for a real stressful situation.
They can go through such things as being fined; having the export rejected; animals confiscated etc.

All the while having the office making a file on that individual which'll put them in the system for future orders.

Non-CITES fee at the border is $186USD, which can be paid by check (and I "believe" in cash), or it can be pre-paid via credit card.

Inspections have to be booked at least 3 days in advance.

-Sam

 

[Reptile Express]

The US information contradicts the Canadian information though - as far as I know, if I drive into the USA and go shopping, I only report to a Canadian agent on my return. I can't see how US Fish & Wildlife would even have contact with me, unless they were called in by Canada Customs, but wouldn't they warn of that?

They contradict because they are two separate laws based on each countries different requirements

When you go shopping for clothes/alcohol etc it comes with its own terms etc.
Wildlife law has more strict policies and procedures and fees. It's a total other ball game.

Yes, when you return back to Canada, you won't have any communication with USFWS. However, Canada Customs will call upon them if they know that US law was broken. Canada Customs will then escort the individual via vehicle and personally deliver them to the USFWS inspector back at the border.

-Sam

 

[Reptile Express]

I then went to the Canadian border, where I was told I had to get my snakes a vet inspection at a different Canadian border (which luckily was only 10 minutes away.) I went to the other border, where I was told I didn't need to get an inspection x.x ...I then just paid my duty of about 15$ and I was on my way home.

The other border was correct when they mentioned that you do not need a vet inspection for reptile imports into Canada. CFIA does not require it (exception: chelonians).

-Sam

 

[Reptile Express]

Tune in to Gecko Nation Radio today at 8pm EST where the sole discussion will be Importing/Exporting Laws & Procedures:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/geckon...ls-to-canada-with-sam-fard-of-reptile-express

-Sam