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Leusism

anyone ever heard of a leusistic kitashi cornsnake? my cousin went to louisiana for his honeymoon and he says that a place down there had a leusistic kitashi cornsnake. he says it's all white with bluish-black eyes. i guess it was caught at some state park. anyone heard of this? i'd like to see it.
 
Maybe he meant a Leucistic Kisatchie?...Kisatchies are locale specific corns to Louisiana (western part?, not sure)...If someone has leucistic corns I'd sure like to see one...I'll go out on a limb here and say maybe someone was pulling his chain and they were selling leucistic texas rats or leucistic black rats, both pretty common morphs of those snakes...AFAIK the gene that expresses lecistics hasn't popped up in corns yet, but i'm certainly not the final authority on this ...peace...:santa:
 
cka said:
Maybe he meant a Leucistic Kisatchie?]




yes, that's it. it was at some reptile place. you pay a couple bucks to walk through the place. he said they had regular kisatchies, but they had 1 white one and it's a male. i guess maybe it could be a rat snake, but they told my cousin it was caught at a park. maybe it's a ratsnake and they just think it's a kisatchie? i wonder if they'll try to breed it.
 
Never heard of a leucistic Kisatche and definitely no leucism in corns. Texas Rats have leucistics so it is probably one of them and they are getting people to pay to see their "oddball" fake kisatche. Who knows.
 
LOL...Yep, sure does Serp. Hmmm.....come to think of it, I can prove that jackalopes live, my sister & brother-in-law have a pair of them mounted on their wall. LOL.
 
Then again............

What if these folks did have a leucistic Kisatchie and were just not aware of it's rarity? Not everyone is up on the current morphology of corns.

Hmmmm, maybe I need to make a trip to Louisiana! :sidestep:
 
I've only seen a couple of Kisatchies in person and, since I don't find them at all interesting, I don't even look at them. So my question is this: if you had a leucistic Kisatchie, how would you know it was one, and not a leucistic corn? Or, not a leucistic Emoryi? :shrugs:
 
In a local herp website there were Leucisistic corns for sale... several people questioned the origin of the animals... and the seller claimed several times that the animals were genuine, even claimed he'd done DNA testing on them (he was selling them for $30 or $50, i don't recall how much)... which made me feel it unlikely he'd done DNA testing... finally, as I recall, it came out that they WERE hybridized with Texas Rats, and crossed back to corns, and the person's contention was that they were more corn than rat, therefore they were cornsnakes, genetically pure....

If I heard of a leucisistic corn, I'd probably only believe it if it was one of the bigger breeders. Knowing that there are hybrids out there being SOLD as pure, when they AREN'T just means that the odds of ever believing in leucisism in corns just went down to near 0% unless it was one of the big trustable breeders.
 
just because you've never seen one doesn't mean they don't exist. it wasn't that long ago that they thought leusism in hognose snakes didn't exist, but it does-see photo below.

maybe they think it's a kisatchi because it was caught in a state park that is maybe known to have kisatchi's, i don't know. all i know is what my cousin told me, and he only told me what was told to him.

all i know is i'd really like to see it. i'm going to get a hold of my cousin and see if he knows the name of the place that had it.
 

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Sasheena said:
In a local herp website there were Leucisistic corns for sale... several people questioned the origin of the animals... and the seller claimed several times that the animals were genuine, even claimed he'd done DNA testing on them (he was selling them for $30 or $50, i don't recall how much)... which made me feel it unlikely he'd done DNA testing... finally, as I recall, it came out that they WERE hybridized with Texas Rats, and crossed back to corns, etc...

Just a side note, this is the first time i've ever seen Texas Rats X Corns being sold online...LLLReptiles has them...cheap too, lol...wonder if these aren't some of the left-overs of someones "Leucistic corn" project...There have been varying stories as to the credibility of leucistic black rats too, whether or not they were created using a leucistic Texas rat...if someone could shed a bit of light on THAT one i'd be glad to hear it :shrugs:
 
wikkedkornman said:
just because you've never seen one doesn't mean they don't exist.
Nobody said that. However, you haven't seen it either. Claims of new morphs are greeted with skepticism, because the vast majority of those claims are false. If you had a picture or something it would help, but people aren't going to take a claim as seriously when it is backed up only by "my cousin's sister's hairdresser's former roommate saw it," or other hearsay. ;)

it wasn't that long ago that they thought leusism in hognose snakes didn't exist, but it does-see photo below.
This really has nothing to do with cornsnakes or kisatchies. Nobody is arguing that leucistic corns can't exist, or that your claim is impossible. In fact I am one of the people who will argue that someday it WILL pop up. I even say so in my book.

I think you are mistaking skepticism for unbelief. I'm sure we'd all like to see one, but the kind of claim you are making has proven unreliable so many times in the past. Many of us are simply unwilling to accept it on such a flimsy claim.

maybe they think it's a kisatchi because it was caught in a state park that is maybe known to have kisatchi's, i don't know.
I dunno either. My question was directed to those on this board who DO work with Kisatchies. Remember that there are like 4000 registered users of this board and there are many people reading this thread.

What I was asking was, without color/pattern on the snake, would you be able to tell the difference between a leucistic corn, a leucistic kisatchie, and a leucistic emoryi (and a leucistic cross or black rat or otherwise?)

I don't know the answer to that question, but I bet there are about a half dozen or so who would be able to give a good answer and enlighten us all. :)

all i know is what my cousin told me, and he only told me what was told to him.
Right. Just remember that we don't know you from Adam, let alone your cousin. So don't be surprised if we don't all take your claim at face value.
 
Lol, this may sound really dumb, and I'm still try'n to get my genetics down (Serp you can expect a $12 from me real soon...), but, her goes: Whats a Kisatchie? Is it a corn sanke morph? I'm really cunfuzzled....
 
Personally, I'd love to see an up close and personal picture of this leucistic snake. You've got my curiousity up,...CAN you tell a leucistic corn from a leucistic Kisatchie from a leucistic Emory. Emory, I'm betting yes, their eyes are just a bit different, as is their head shape.

To tell the truth, I've not see enough Kisatchies to know, nor studied their pictures (mainly because I can't get past the drab, lol), are they just a dark corn snake or are there anatomical deviations from the norm that signal Kisatchie?

This post does raise a good question at that.

Personally, I hope it DOES end up being a leucistic corn of some sort, now we're just waiting on pictures and confirmation. :)

Side note: DON! or anyone, got any up close and personal clear shots of Kisatchies...esp. head shots?
 
cka said:
There have been varying stories as to the credibility of leucistic black rats too, whether or not they were created using a leucistic Texas rat...if someone could shed a bit of light on THAT one i'd be glad to hear it :shrugs:

The first I heard of leucistic black rat snakes was from a guy named Larry Rouch who said he produced the first ones. He claims they came out of his "Rusty" rat snake population. These are a brown colored form of the black rat snake that the original stock came out of northern Baltimore county near York Road.

I cannot say what the truth of the matter is, but I do know that Larry was working with leucistic Texas rat snakes a few years before these leucistic black rat snakes surfaced. And a person I knew at the time, who seemed rather credible to me, gave a rather back handed compliment to Mr. Rouch. He said "Larry is the BEST liar I have ever met."

So take it for what it is worth.
 
Thanks Rich...

Quote "He claims they came out of his "Rusty" rat snake population. These are a brown colored form of the black rat snake that the original stock came out of northern Baltimore county near York Road"

Thats a good place to see some big black rats, especially in the area bordering the Gunpowder River south of Prettyboy Reservoir...Coincidentally (or not, as secretive as some folks will be as to where their "Special place" is lol) all the black rats I've seen around there have been nice solid blacks...
 
Kisatchies have a different scienetific name now, I think. The are in their own class not with Guttata anymore.

I could be wrong, and I know the new name aren't aren't all that widely used yet still.

Quigs
 
Thanks Chris...

But now they are Pantherophis slowinskii?

Not Pantherophis guttata guttata...correct?

Quigs
 
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