Live feeding problem

[redsnake21]

About two months ago i got a corn and it hasnt learned how to kill, with my past snakes i have never had this problem. At first I thought it was because out was small. What it has been doing is to puts its mouth on the pinkies head till it cant breath. Lately it has tried to wrap its body around it but it hasnt been succesful. Now today he tried to kill but couldnt do it do it basically ate it alive because it striked from the back. So while it was inside it was still moving, I was scared that the pinky was going to injure the snake from inside but if it did the snake would hade regurgitated the mice. Should i change to frozen pinkies or just wait and see wat happens. Also what are the pro and cons on frozen vs alive feeding?

 

[caz223]

It sounds like your snake is already conditioned to take frozen thawed.
I'd switch to frozen immediately if your snake takes them.

 

[Jenstar]

All of my snakes that eat live pinkies and small fuzzies do the same thing. Your snake is going to be fine. At this stage in your snakes life it doesn't really have to kill its food because there is no real risk of injury. It will learn how to kill it's prey as it gets older.

If you want to try to give it frozen thawed go for it. I have a snake that started out on live and changed over to F/T very easily, but not all do.

 

[caz223]

Advantages to feeding frozen thawed.
1. No chance of rodent bites of danger to snake caused by rodents fighting back.
2. Fewer/no parasites from frozen mice.
3. The snakes seem to know it's not going to get away, so they are more calm around feeding time, and less likely to bite you by accident.
4. Sometimes if a snakes gets bit while feeding it can be traumatized and go off food. I've seen it happen. The snake was scared of ANY movement while feeding from then on, and WOULDN'T take live ever again. Some snakes get over it. Some don't. Why risk it?
5. No chance of a rodent getting away inside your house.
6. The hassle of keeping a rodent live until your snakes' feeding time, or the hassle of driving to get a fresh mouse.

The disadvantages of frozen/thawed.
1. If you keep a few mice in your 'people food' freezer, sometimes your ice tastes funny.
2. Figuring out how to hide the mice in your freezer as to not offend/put off your friends. DON'T KEEP YOUR MICE IN CONTAINERS LABELED 'ICE CREAM SANDWICHES'. Trust me on this.
3. If you keep your mice in the freezer too long they get freezer burned. Not sure if they lose any nutrition this way, but I don't like freezer burned food, so I try to minimize it for my snakes.
4. Some snakes don't like frozen thawed right away, corns will usually take it just fine, so it's not really a disadvantage.

I've heard that some people will claim some enzyme your snake needs is destroyed by freezing. That's not true for corns, unless you feed them a diet of 100% frozen minnows. I'm not even sure if that's the case then. It's a deficiency in the diet, not in the way it was stored. It's not a problem in corn snakes. A corn snake can eat a diet of 100% frozen mice all it's life with no problems whatsoever.

 

[caz223]

I forgot 1 advantage of live feeding.
You know the condition of the mouse. You can see it's not sick. You know there's no metal in it. If you raise it yourself you know what it ate last, and you can 'gut load' it with vitamins that are good for your snake.
These are rare occurances, but they can happen.
But if you raise your own feeders (and freeze them.) you can have the advantages of BOTH.

 

[Jenstar]

I feed the majority of mine frozen thawed for those reasons. The ones I have that eat live are former non-feeders and picky eaters. I plan on switching them as soon as I feel they are ready.

Feeding frozen is definetly much more convenient. I can just go to the freezer get what I need, defrost it and feed my snakes.

Unfortunately I still have to go to the store to get live for my picky eaters. Hopefully they will change over to F/T soon

 

[redsnake21]

Thanks everyone, dont know what to do yet. I want the snake to be happy and it seems to enjoy live ones. jenstar i thought of that too no use using a lot of energy. but still when it tried wrapping it just cant get the hang of it. One time his head was position weird. About two feedings ago he striked ok and got his body over it very well and the mouse got killed (i though), it didnt move. As soon as the snake started to eat it, it started moving. It was weird ill just wait and see what happens.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

I have 6 hatchling corns right now, and only 2 of them constrict. The other 4 eat like you described. It's not abnormal/unhealthy, it's just how they prefer to do it for now. Most of the time, they learn how to constrict when their food gets stronger/struggles to get away (fuzzies/hoppers). I have one girl who strikes a fuzzy and wraps into an almost perfect beehive. She throws her whole body into it. But she is the odd one out. Most of mine tend to use just enough of their body.

 

[redsnake21]

I have 6 hatchling corns right now, and only 2 of them constrict. The other 4 eat like you described. It's not abnormal/unhealthy, it's just how they prefer to do it for now. Most of the time, they learn how to constrict when their food gets stronger/struggles to get away (fuzzies/hoppers). I have one girl who strikes a fuzzy and wraps into an almost perfect beehive. She throws her whole body into it. But she is the odd one out. Most of mine tend to use just enough of their body.

My last corn did it earlier than this. So i shouldnt be worried, im just worried of injury or any thing that might happen to the snake. I mean last time I fed it, it ate it alive and inside i could still see the pinky move its hands and it looked like the skin was going to be punctured, or at least receive some tissue damage.

 

[shaberry]

Wow, I'm so glad that I took a peek into this thread. I just fed my hatchling today too, and it ate the pinky live from the back side. It was crazy. I was kind of freaking out, cause I thought it was going to constrict and kill the pinky before eating it, but it didn't. The poor pinky was holding on for dear life onto the paper towel, up until my corn got to its arms. Poor thing. I think I heard it give a last whimper inside my corn. *shivers* That's going to take some getting used to. But, I might look into getting f/t pinkies, because it's much more convenient. But, since I read caz223's post on the f/t's possibly making the ice in the freezer taste funny, I don't know.

So, it's alright if the pinky is alive when the hatchling is eating it? There's no harmful side effects or anything? Like the pinky cutting the inside tissues of the corn?

Btw, thanks redsnake21 for posting on this topic. It saved me a new thread. I kinda felt shy to ask, since I posted 2 new threads already. -.-;;; *sigh* I thought I did a good or at least decent amount of research on corns to be prepared for owning a couple, but I guess I was wrong. Now that I have them, I feel like I don't know anything at all. >.<

 

[redsnake21]

Your welcome shaberry, this was made a couple of months ago and im glad it still helps someone. by the way my snake is doing fine after a couple of feedings it started wrapping perfectly. Now he/she is a perfect killer. It is alright for the pinky to be alive, it will suffocate as soon as it cant breath. I dont think the pinky will hurt the inside since i dont think it has nails to scratch. Hopefully yours quickly learns to kill, in my opinion i feel live prey as long as im there watching in case something happens.

 

[Em Wright]

If you're there watching I can't see where it would be as big a risk... but honestly, feeding F/T is a LOT safer.

And if you keep it in a container or some kind it doesn't affect your ice as far as I've seen. We use a LOT of ice in our household and have not noticed a difference when keeping mice in the freezer. Not to mention F/T mice tend to be cheaper than ones you buy live.

 

[Kali]

2. Figuring out how to hide the mice in your freezer as to not offend/put off your friends. DON'T KEEP YOUR MICE IN CONTAINERS LABELED 'ICE CREAM SANDWICHES'. Trust me on this.

LOL
Had an experience like that too. I kept my mice in an icecream box. My sister, nosy as she always is, started looking around my freezer to see what was in it. "Oooh icecream.....AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH"
hehe

Btw, I've never had funny tasting ice. I think if you have a well-closing container for the mice, that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[bekers71]

Wow, I'm so glad that I took a peek into this thread. I just fed my hatchling today too, and it ate the pinky live from the back side. It was crazy. I was kind of freaking out, cause I thought it was going to constrict and kill the pinky before eating it, but it didn't. The poor pinky was holding on for dear life onto the paper towel, up until my corn got to its arms. Poor thing. I think I heard it give a last whimper inside my corn. *shivers* That's going to take some getting used to. But, I might look into getting f/t pinkies, because it's much more convenient. But, since I read caz223's post on the f/t's possibly making the ice in the freezer taste funny, I don't know.

Now just imagine the pinkie being an adult and hearing it squeak and watching it squirm while being crushed. Yummmy! :eek1:

Having mice in your freeze is no different than having chicken in your freezer. Matter of fact, in most cases the mice are probably cleaner than chicken. Just look at how mice are raised then go look at how chickens are raised. Again... Yummmy! LOL

 

[shaberry]

Your welcome shaberry, this was made a couple of months ago and im glad it still helps someone. by the way my snake is doing fine after a couple of feedings it started wrapping perfectly. Now he/she is a perfect killer. It is alright for the pinky to be alive, it will suffocate as soon as it cant breath. I dont think the pinky will hurt the inside since i dont think it has nails to scratch. Hopefully yours quickly learns to kill, in my opinion i feel live prey as long as im there watching in case something happens.

I'm glad your snake transitioned into the perfect killer. =) I hope mine will be able to as well. =)

If you're there watching I can't see where it would be as big a risk... but honestly, feeding F/T is a LOT safer.

And if you keep it in a container or some kind it doesn't affect your ice as far as I've seen. We use a LOT of ice in our household and have not noticed a difference when keeping mice in the freezer. Not to mention F/T mice tend to be cheaper than ones you buy live.

Yeah, I'm really looking into just getting f/t. Since, the price of one pink is the same price for one adult mouse, I figured that maybe purchasing f/t would be a cheaper route for me to go. So, I took a look at the pricing at rodentpro.com and calculated my costs for a bag of 100 pinks, and was pleased with the quote on the bag. But, when I looked at my total, shipping more than doubled my purchase price. *sigh* From $36 to going to $80, that's a pretty hefty price for shipping. So, I'm not quite sure what I want to do now. -.-;;; I figured I'd take a look at the local pet shops around me and see if they have any f/t for a good price, before I make my final decision. I really want to feed f/t, just because it's more convenient for me that way. Since, it saves me a drive to the shop and gas. Ah, being a poor college student is great! >.<

Now just imagine the pinkie being an adult and hearing it squeak and watching it squirm while being crushed. Yummmy! :eek1:

Having mice in your freeze is no different than having chicken in your freezer. Matter of fact, in most cases the mice are probably cleaner than chicken. Just look at how mice are raised then go look at how chickens are raised. Again... Yummmy! LOL

Yeah, I would never want to subject an adult mouse to that. When the mice are at the age when their eyes are open, have sharp claws, and have teeth, I'm going to kill them before they're fed to my snake. Just like how I do (well, it's more like how my bf kills the mouse) for my 1 yr old corn.

Initially, I wanted to feed f/t cause I know it's safer for my snake. But, my friend and bf made a reasonable point. "It's like feeding frozen tv dinner, when you can feed fresh roasted steak." So, I figured, since the mouse was going to be dead before we fed it to my snake, it would be ok. And so far, it's turned out great.

 

[alan]

Now just imagine the pinkie being an adult and hearing it squeak and watching it squirm while being crushed. Yummmy! :eek1:

Thanks Becky, that's an important point nobody makes in these threads.
We all want to be humane, there are threads devoted to the most humane way to kill your feeders. I don't think death by constrictor is a very humane way to kill a mouse. If you don't have to feed live I don't recommend it, not nice to watch, and you have to watch just in case.
When I fed my snake live mice it sometimes took 30 seconds or so for them to die, in extreme stress. When I kill them myself it is almost instant death (I hope).
Think about the poor Stuart Littles...sure they're just rodents, but give them their props for nourishing your snakes.

 

[Em Wright]

Yeah, I'm really looking into just getting f/t. Since, the price of one pink is the same price for one adult mouse, I figured that maybe purchasing f/t would be a cheaper route for me to go. So, I took a look at the pricing at rodentpro.com and calculated my costs for a bag of 100 pinks, and was pleased with the quote on the bag. But, when I looked at my total, shipping more than doubled my purchase price. *sigh* From $36 to going to $80, that's a pretty hefty price for shipping. So, I'm not quite sure what I want to do now. -.-;;; I figured I'd take a look at the local pet shops around me and see if they have any f/t for a good price, before I make my final decision. I really want to feed f/t, just because it's more convenient for me that way. Since, it saves me a drive to the shop and gas. Ah, being a poor college student is great! >.<

If you're paying $2 per pinkie (or around there) then adding up the cost for a 100 pinkies becomes a LOT less than what you would spend on F/T mice online. Yes, $80 is a lot, but it's still way cheaper than what you would get locally.

Yeah, I would never want to subject an adult mouse to that. When the mice are at the age when their eyes are open, have sharp claws, and have teeth, I'm going to kill them before they're fed to my snake. Just like how I do (well, it's more like how my bf kills the mouse) for my 1 yr old corn.

Initially, I wanted to feed f/t cause I know it's safer for my snake. But, my friend and bf made a reasonable point. "It's like feeding frozen tv dinner, when you can feed fresh roasted steak." So, I figured, since the mouse was going to be dead before we fed it to my snake, it would be ok. And so far, it's turned out great.

I personally think when people prefer to kill live prey it's because they either get a rise out of it or because they're illusioned to believing it helps their snake somehow.

Would you let your dog go out and hunt wild rabbits for food? I don't think so. You give it dog chow. Right?

 

[carnivorouszoo]

I forgot 1 advantage of live feeding.
You know the condition of the mouse. You can see it's not sick. You know there's no metal in it. If you raise it yourself you know what it ate last, and you can 'gut load' it with vitamins that are good for your snake.
These are rare occurances, but they can happen.
But if you raise your own feeders (and freeze them.) you can have the advantages of BOTH.

This is what I do I don't want a rodent ripping into my snake just cause she decided to go butt first this time. I've seen some nasty photos of what happened to live fed animals. I just can't risk that with my Rose.

 

[redsnake21]

There are many ways to feed an animal. As long as we all are being responsible pet owners everything is ok. true some of the feedings can be inhumane. I think another possible way is not to kill he mouse before you feed it but to stun it will be good. Meaning dont kill the rat, just confuse with a hit or two. Too the point where it is seeing stars. I know it sounds terrible but it might be the best way to feed live without any problems. Now on the f/t in my point of view is great if you have many snakes to feed. When you only have to worry about one its not that bad. Shaberry i think there are a couple of pet shops who freeze their own mice. You just need to ask around.

 

[shaberry]

Shaberry i think there are a couple of pet shops who freeze their own mice. You just need to ask around.

I looked around yesterday, and found that Petco sells frozen pinkies. They only come in 3 per pack, but that's fine.

Thanks everyone for the help. =) I really appreciate all your input and advise on my issues concerning live and f/t mice.