Locality Questions

[Joejr14]

Thanks larryg thats the kind of info i was looking for. Not like the rude remarkes that have been posted by some people.

And cav the othere corn that i was talking about was a full blood corn not an itergrade. frome what i remember they started with the normal coloring of corn snake as hachlings but as they aged they stated to get more black pigment on the lowwer half of their bodies i think the guy that colected them thought that they might be melinistic(spelling?). As far as the keys cornes being intergrades i belive that they sould still be a subspicies. But since there is a bit of a difference of an oppinon on that.

You've been quite rude yourself. You asked for locality corns, and you were told the 3 major ones, and essentially the only ones. Some guy selling western pine island mini-ugly corns that's totally unknown to 99% of the corn snake people doesn't really make it a locality. That would be like me walking outside and catching some corns, and then making an ad asking if anyone is interested in Tallahassee corns.

Btw, your sig is pretty rude itself. You might want to think about changing that.

 

[CAV]

Thanks larryg thats the kind of info i was looking for. Not like the rude remarkes that have been posted by some people.

Well like the saying goes "you get what you give".

 

[larryg]

Even if the locality animals look like total Normals, you could still collect them in an area, breed them, and be able to call them Locality for that area. Yes, nobody would care because they wouldn't be anything 'special', but they'd still be locality animals. Ideally, you'd want to choose good representatives of the animals in that area, to be used for breeding. Just because someone else hasn't started breeding Florida Panhandle Corns or whatever doesn't mean it can't be done. Hopefully they'd be different from total Normals, if somebody was going to go to the trouble of keeping a pure locality line. I saw a Boa expert (Dennis Sargent) speak, and he talked about the importance of keeping pure locality lines, mostly for future breeders to use. Everything het-this and motley-that can have its disadvantages.

 

[kathylove]

Most of the Miami phase founders were wild caught in southern Dade county, but many were caught A LONG TIME AGO, and then mixed with various other morphs. Although mine have mostly Dade Co. blood, they could be het for amel and lav, so are not purely from the locality stock. I have gone more for the look that I want then the purity of locality. But I am sure there are a few breeders who have taken pains to keep them completely pure.

The Christmas hypo corns were originally from Daufuskie Island, again a LONG TIME AGO. I don't know if anyone kept them pure though. As far as I know, they have been mixed with a lot of different bloodlines and are no longer pure.

 

[CAV]

Locality specimens should be preserved if possible

Hopefully they'd be different from total Normals, if somebody was going to go to the trouble of keeping a pure locality line. I saw a Boa expert (Dennis Sargent) speak, and he talked about the importance of keeping pure locality lines, mostly for future breeders to use. Everything het-this and motley-that can have its disadvantages.

Amen to that. Hog Island is a prime example as to why purity can pay off.

 

[Menhir]

Even if the locality animals look like total Normals, you could still collect them in an area, breed them, and be able to call them Locality for that area.

Very well said. There are still people with many posts and "long" experience mixing "locality" with the lookeetee and miami confusion. I postet it a few weeks ago - dealing with locality should involve a little more knowledge about herpers that care for locality animals of all races and not just compare everything to our little cornsnake world.
For many people it's important where their animals were collected, no matter what they look like. To say it again, you can't distingush european Vipera berus by their look cause they are highly variable - although people do care a lot if it was collected in the Erzgebirge or 100km far away in the Harz or 300km farer away in Austria or the EastGerman coast.

We often try to explain novices the genetic standards and how to deal with that, but on the other hand mix all the "well defined" locality stuff with our expectations of the look of an animal and the whole Okeetee-soup.

 

[Billybobob]

You've been quite rude yourself. You asked for locality corns, and you were told the 3 major ones, and essentially the only ones. Some guy selling western pine island mini-ugly corns that's totally unknown to 99% of the corn snake people doesn't really make it a locality. That would be like me walking outside and catching some corns, and then making an ad asking if anyone is interested in Tallahassee corns.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=157559#
puke01

show me where i hve been rude i can only see one part that might be taken as rude:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=157559#
shrugs

Thanks larryg thats the kind of info i was looking for. Not like the rude remarkes that have been posted by some people.

And that was not meant to be rude it was mainly to show my appreciation for larryg's post. i would say that over 50% of your post are rude as He**. So when did you start caring about weather people are being rude or not. Also this isn't some kind of exclusive club house for you elitist on this forum it is a place for every one to come and share ideas and info. so go back and read my post (you to cav) and you will see that i did not ask any thing about okeetee or integrates i just wanted to know about some of the lesser known localitys and since you two don't know anything about them i guess you felt you had two be rude and try to belittle me.http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=157559#
grin01

now that was my first post that i really think is rude but i am getting sick of all the rude Sh** that has been going on here on these forums since viman was around (by the way that was also joejr claim to fame here i believe).

Now if any one has any thing to say about my Questions i would love to hear from you. And i would also like to thank every one that has posted already with info on my questions, larryg, Menhir, Sisuitl, Jynx, and kathylove thank you all for your post and sorry that i got a little rude in this one.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=157559#
cheers

 

[CAV]

What you don't seem to understand is that your locality question is directly tied to the issue of intergrades. The two topics simple aren't mutually exclusive.

As far as rudeness, it started with your second post and got progressively worse. It may not have been your intent to come across that way, but I wasn't they only one that picked up on it.

 

[Billybobob]

cav the post you just made not rude at all thanks. just re-read my second post i still dont see how it is rude i was just trying to clarify my questions. pleas show me how it was rude so i can try to ajust how i type my words in future post. if this seems rude in any way that is not my intent. i realy just don't see how my post was rude.

 

[CAV]

"Maybe to you but i am sure that there are people who think that other locality's are just as important."

"i said that i wasn't intrested in any info on okeetees."

"thats the kind of info i was looking for. Not like the rude remarkes that have been posted by some people."

"this isn't some kind of exclusive club house for you elitist on this forum it is a place for every one to come and share ideas and info."

"since you two don't know anything about them"

These aren't exactly "go along to get along" kinds of statements.

 

[Billybobob]

The first of my quotes you posted is not in my second post it is in my third but i do see how it could be seen as rude. sorry.

the second you took out of context with the hole sentonce i feel that it is not rude at all. This is the full sentence.

You didn't really answer my question at all in either of your post i said that i wasn't intrested in any info on okeetees and thats all you gave.

now the third it was mainly to show my appreciation for larryg's post. and i already statted that i thought that it might seem rude so i am sorry for that too.

And the last two in the actual post i said that it was rude. but it was more like venting about all the b/s that has been going on in this forum you and joejr just got caught in my crosshairs. So i am also sorry for that.

now that was my first post that i really think is rude but i am getting sick of all the rude Sh** that has been going on here on these forums since viman was around

And now i am the cause of the one thing on this forum that i don't like rude b/s so sorry to any one that has read this thread and had to put up with this and before joejr reads my really rude post sorry to him too. I really don't want to add to all of the b/s so i just want to say thanks for the replies and sorry to those who i may have offended.

~Curtis~

 

[Rich Z]

Warning!

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[CAV]

No problems here.

Curtis, I appreciate your clarification. I hope your original question was answered to your satisfaction.

 

[larryg]

Most of the Miami phase founders were wild caught in southern Dade county, but many were caught A LONG TIME AGO, and then mixed with various other morphs. Although mine have mostly Dade Co. blood, they could be het for amel and lav, so are not purely from the locality stock. I have gone more for the look that I want then the purity of locality. But I am sure there are a few breeders who have taken pains to keep them completely pure.
QUOTE]

Len Krysko is one. He breeds mainly Kingsnakes, but he does have locality Keys and Miami Corns, as well as Anery Corns descended from WC Anery Corns (see his website.) His son is a PhD herpetologist (Ken Krysko... you may have seen some photos with him listed as the photographer.) Mark Damico is a Boa breeder who has a few locality Miamis that he breeds (some are from Len). I have two from Mark and one from Len, and the one WC. Mark also breeds the Keys Corns. I like the fact that Len and his son have caught their own locality specimens for breeding, which puts him in a different league than the vast majority of the other Miami breeders. Both Len and Mark were easy to deal with and spent a lot of time answering questions. Check out Len's many varieties of Kingsnakes, on his website. Looking at a map, Cutler Ridge is pretty far south in Dade County (and not too far from the coast). Anybody know about the 'purity' of Serpenco Miami lines, at least up until several years ago, before the Milksnake Phase was started?