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morphs in color phase corns

B

Billybobob

very unactive member
I was just wondering if people would like to see a more selective breeding program like breeding color morphs; amel, anery, lav, ect. to phases such as blood, miami, and okeetee so that they breed true. Exampel lav (selectively bred to look okeetee) that when crosed to a normal okeetee would result in baby okeetees with the clasic okeete patern.

Any comments? Or dose anyone know anyone working on somthing like this? Any info would be apritiated.
 
OkateeManiac thanks for the reply. I guess that most people on this site a just breeding to get morphs not color phases no one cares about okeetees, miamis or bloods? :shrugs: :shrugs:
 
strange

Exampel lav (selectively bred to look okeetee) that when crosed to a normal okeetee would result in baby okeetees with the clasic okeete patern.
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That doesn't make a bit of sense.
If you want to breed two snakes together to get okeetees why not breed okeetees.
What would a lavender that looked like an okeetee accomplish?
I am completely lost on that idea.
 
jimmy my idea is to make have all the morphs availibel in all the color phases like miami, okeetee, and blood. alot has alredy been done to breed morphs to the blood red line but i dont know how much the babys from a lave blood crossed to a regular blood would look like a real blood with the deep red color. Think about being abel to have a snow that when bred to a candy cane would give you baby candycanes. This would be possibel if there were aney miamis. i know that there is mo to it than that but you get the idea.
 
I think that most people a misunderstanding my post i am talking about breeding th existing morphs into the different pases like miami, okeetee, and blood so that their will be better founder stock for projects such as candycanes, pewters, floresents, sunglows, and crimsons. And to start new selectively bred morphs.
 
The kind of breeding program you're thinking of will take many generations to even start to get decent results. I'm sure it's in some breeders projects, but only in the early stages. And you can never guarantee what the offspring will look like when dealing with selectively bred variations instead of actual genetic morphs. Even now, when breeding an Okeetee to an Okeetee, or a candy cane to a candy cane, not all the offspring "measure up". Good idea though!
 
Susan thanks for the reply and i know that i will take a long time to get even decent results, heck it took 20 some odd years to selectivly breed bloods. But this i somthing that i have thought about since i fist started breeding corns when i was 16 and I just wanted to know if people out there would like to see a breeding program like this, to see if the demand was high enough to make it worth it. It would be nice to be abel to cross out a corn and have the babies be a nice miami or okeetee insted of jes a regular normal.
 
I'm a tad bit confused too...What I got from your post(s)...

a. You want to selectively breed the phases to actually create a morph that breeds true (don't know if that would actually be possible...)

b. You want to make Okeeteeish Lavs and Miamish Lavs etc.
 
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

If I wanted an okeetee, I'd buy an okeetee, not an outcrossed okeetee x lav back to an okeetee to a lav to an okeetee to make a normal that looked like an okeetee.

Wut?

If I want a lav, I'll buy a lav. If I want an okeetee, I'll buy an okeetee.

The whole post doesnt make much sense, imo. These things are line bred, that means you cant just go normal x normal and get miamish looking snakes. Doesnt work that way.
 
Do reverse Okeetees and candycanes ring a bell? There are also "butter Okeetee" and "Ok Motley" as well as "Miami Motley" and other similar projects that people are working on. I would like to see "Miami anerys" and several other similar types.

IMO it's a question of how much work would it take, versus how valuable the payoff would be to you. :)
 
Serpwidgets said:
Do reverse Okeetees and candycanes ring a bell? There are also "butter Okeetee" and "Ok Motley" as well as "Miami Motley" and other similar projects that people are working on. I would like to see "Miami anerys" and several other similar types.
Click to expand...

This is where he lost me, Serp...

Exampel lav (selectively bred to look okeetee) that when crosed to a normal okeetee would result in baby okeetees with the clasic okeete patern.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to decipher this...and this is what I got...

Selectively breed an "Okeetee" Lav...Then breed it to an actual Okeetee...Then the offspring of that would be expected to be Okeetees het for Lav...

Which...I don't agree with...Lav (even "Okeetee" phase) x Okeetee would be normals (some could have an Okeeteeish look) het Lav...
 
Ya, this seems like a small payoff for all the work it would require. I could see the benefit in having an "okeetee snow" (etc) just because the phenotype could be attractive to many people in itself.

But if you want to produce nice okeetees or miamis, there are a ton of snakes already out there that will do exactly that. Seems like a long way to go to reinvent the wheel. :)
 
Serpwidgets said:
Do reverse Okeetees and candycanes ring a bell? There are also "butter Okeetee" and "Ok Motley" as well as "Miami Motley" and other similar projects that people are working on. I would like to see "Miami anerys" and several other similar types.

IMO it's a question of how much work would it take, versus how valuable the payoff would be to you. :)
Click to expand...

Not the same, at least that's not what I'm gathering from his post.

It seems like he wants to go Okeetee x Lav, select the best looking normals of that group, and then pair those with an okeetee or another from the clutch to produce really nice okeetees.

Why would you do that?

I might be able to see the point of doing an okeetee lavender, but that'd be a lot of work.

I think you'd need to have a few clutches of lavender x amazing okeetee, hold back the best of those clutches and have a few generations to produce something that really looks like a line-bred lavender.

Seems like an awful lot of work for a morph that will be worth $30 by then.


:shrugs:
 
it all goes back to the "Do the results outweigh the costs?" to some people, they may. I mean, that is how we got candycanes and reverse okeetees for that matter. So far as money, i dont think too many people on here are in for more than to just break even.


I honestly think the best advice that was ever given concerning picking projects etc came from Serp (i think) when he said to just pick a result that you like and will keep you interested. dont try to guess what the majority is going to be drooling over.
 
Some of you get the basic idea i have some dont. I do know that ther are alredy some projecs that have started this wich i have metioned but i am not talking about breeding to morphs to get better looking okeetees, miamis and bloods, i am talking about breeding all of the morphs into the color phases so that when you would cross out your stock to an okeetee, miami, or normal blood (depending on what project) you would get good examelss of color phase you are looking for. This would help to streaghten your lines and make it so it would not take so long to get the color you are going for when you are out crosing your stock and it would help to lower the amount of inbreeding.

This idea started when i could not find any blooods that looked like the blood in the cornsake manual because most people outcrossed their bloods because of the problems with the line but they did not realy care about the color or how much the snakes looked like the real blood line the just started calling all of the f2 that showed the difused trait bloods. i thought that a breeding project like this would help to eliminate this problem get the bloodred back to what the bloodreds use to be. then i started thinking about candy canes and how alot of the snakes i see out there labeled as candy canes realy dont look like candy canes insted of high white amels and started to think that all the color phases could use this type of breeding program to help provide stock to further along projects and to help people know what the normal coloring of their snake would be if it was not a morph(this would help with planing long term breeding projects.

Sorry about the long post and the mis-spelling in all of my post, i am not the best english student. Any other ?'s, thoughts, or just criticisms wold be apritiated.
 
This would not help to strengthen lines because by the time you got to that point, you'd have spent many generations line breeding to get the look you desire.

Now I'm lost, too. I don't get the point of taking 20-30 years to produce an Okeetee from a snow X Okeetee cross. I can produce very nice Okeetees and Snows right now without any real effort or expense. Breeding anerys to Okeetees will not result in better-looking Okeetees.

Line breeding and outcrossing are polar opposites, and create opposite results. If you outcross the entire population all the time, you will only end up with a population of corns that are all diluted out and "generic." There wouldn't be any Okeetee anythings at that point. ;)
 
i know what you're saying, but i think a lot has to do with the picture people get in their heads of what a snake should look like and then turn their noses up at something that isnt flawless. Candycanes are going to have speckling, bloods are gonna show some pattern. People go through hundreds of pictures to get that perfect looking one.

The project ideas sound great, if the people spearheading them keep an open mind about the results.
 
Serp did you read my post at all i am not talking about producing more okeetes and miamis but i want to breed all of the cultivars into the diferent phases. mabye it is just the way i am writing my post but people just are not geting it.


Now I'm lost, too. I don't get the point of taking 20-30 years to produce an Okeetee from a snow X Okeetee cross. I can produce very nice Okeetees and Snows right now without any real effort or expense. Breeding anerys to Okeetees will not result in better-looking Okeetees.
Click to expand...

I do know that ther are alredy some projecs that have started this wich i have metioned but i am not talking about breeding to morphs to get better looking okeetees, miamis and bloods,
Click to expand...

People seem to be caught up on the fact that i used an okeete as an exampel so i use a diferent one now: lav blood when outcrossed will not look like a real blood it may have the defused pattern but the outcrossed baby will not have the red color of a real blood red. No this is not me trying to fiind the ideal look i have in my head. Would you consider a difused corn that came from miami stock with lots of grey and black color in it a bloodred. I woldnt but thats just me and i know that candy canes will have some speckleing but some of the corns that people are trying to pass off as candycanes are realy normal amels with extra white. I thought that these terms are suposed to represent thebest of the bunch not just every snake that might be. sorry got off topic.

But this idea is to eventualy have, miami phase snakes avalible in all of the cultivars, miami lavs, miami butters, miami aneys, miami snows, ect. The same with okeetees and bloods to have all the cultivars in these phases as well. So if the morphs are out crosed they will look like the phase you are breeding for. Once agin the objectof this breeding plan is toget the morphs not the outcrosed babies.
 
Would you consider a difused corn that came from miami stock with lots of grey and black color in it a bloodred.
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na, b/c i've quit calling them bloods all together actually. To me it was a genotypic description that is better described by the word diffused b/c it applies to other morphs as well. Now they're are varying degrees of what the diffused animals look like, some more so than others but still diffused so far as genetics go.

Candycanes, okeetees and miamis are completely different in that they are not results of a genotypic or simple recessive gene(with the exception of candycane but still line bred) Sure you can line breed any morph to look a certain way. I just think that it's going to take way too many generations to achieve what you are talking about.

I agree with you that there are way too many people out there who have simple amels labeled reverse okeetee, candycane, fluorescent or even sunglow when there is white on it. Same goes with okeetee and miami. Some do it b/c they're trying to make an extra 10 bucks, others b/c they believe it truly is. Either way, the arguments would continue to be the same, but just with different flavors.


Realisticly, i think that it's up to the individuals to just line breed to suit their personal taste rather than fit a certain category. Some morphs will undoubtfully look better when outcrossed with miamis and others with okeetee phase. Personally i think anerys would look better off miami bloodlines. On the other hand, i think amels look better off okeetee phase bloodlines. It's all going to fall back into the personal preference realm. That's the good thing with corns. There's enough variability, even within morphs to suit everyone.
 
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