morphs in color phase corns

[Susan]

What I think Billybobob is trying to get across and would eventually like to see (in about 50 years) is this:

Breeder A has some Miami butters, but all of his snakes are very closely related and he does not have any crimsons. Breeder A wants to buy some Miami het ambers from Breeder B, whose snakes are not related to Breeder A's snakes, in order to not only add some new blood, but also have as good a chance as possible to eventually produce Miami ambers with minimal generations.

 

[Serpwidgets]

lav blood when outcrossed will not look like a real blood it may have the defused pattern but the outcrossed baby will not have the red color of a real blood red.

Right. But what is the point of selecting for "redness" in a morph that doesn't have any red? When I hatch pewters I will be selecting for feeding response and vigor, then pattern, then head shape, then anything else I might find desireable.

I don't see what is to be gained by selecting for "redness" in these lines instead of those other things. When you select for one characteristic, you necessarily lessen what you are selecting for in other characteristics, which slows the progress you make in those other directions.

After 20 years of breeding pewters, would I rather have pewters that hatch out big, have a great feeding response, and a beautifully diffused pattern? Or would I want pewters that, when crossed to bloodreds, make "really red" offspring?

 

[Menhir]

From what I understood, it is meant that when breeding a SunglowMotley to a Sunglow, I should get Sunglows.
One problem is, that many people sell Amel Motleys that don't show white as SunglowMotley, but thats at least not what I want...
Same thing with CandyCane - if I buy a Snow CandyCane, I want an animal that bred to a Candy gives me 100% CandyCane het Anery in the clutch.

If you want a special look in combination with a morph, let's say I want a Lavender with thick borders that does not produce Okeetee when bred to Okeetee - I also shouldn't name the animals Lavender Okeetee. Perhaps one should use a different name. Same thing with SunglowMotley, if they produce Sunglows when bred to SUnglow, name them Sunglow Motley, if they just don't show white without producing Sunglows, name it different.

If we could all agree on that, we would know what to buy when dealing with SunglowMotley, CharcoalOkeetee or whatever. One question from me is, if I buy an Amelanistic Okeetee - do I judge Amelanistic Okeetee by their look or by the way they produce offspring when crossed to an Okeetee???
Imho - "ReverseOkeetee" gives a new touch, a new name and therefore, I would judge them by their look. I personally would judge "Amelanistic Okeetee" by the way they look and ALSO by the offspring when bred to an Okeetee.

Thats at least my breeders point of view and it seems to be more of an ideal than reality

(...a hint, when I speak of Miami or Okeetee, I mean the Miami/Okeetee phase and so the special LOOK you want to have and it has nothing to do with locality in this case)