My Respiratory Infection experience

[Naagas]

So, the breeding trio I bought a week ago (1.1 classic, 0.1 stripe) all ended up having symptoms of an RI.

At first it was only Bindi, the big male. I thought maybe he was going to shed since the other two weren't showing any symptoms and the previous owner had kept them all in one sterelite container :headbang:

However, the classic female (Kundelini) started to show symptoms then rapidly decline. I checked on her one morning to find her struggling to breath with her mouth hanging open. I took them to the vet straight away.

First off, I love this vet!! She is competent and a true animal lover. She knows her snakes.

After a thorough once-over, Kundelini got prescribed oral antibiotics while the other two were deemed ok for the moment since they seemed to be doing well.

The vet says that often RIs are a result of poor husbandry.
She said that the first thing she recommends is separating the snakes (of course I separate all of mine).
Then she said to put them on newspaper substrate until they are well.
She told me that many RIs are caused by improper substrate- especially anything with dust. Or anything that stays too damp.
I don't know what they were previously kept on but I'm betting it wasn't correct.
While they are still showing symptoms, she said to clean and sanitize their vivs daily.

She also told me to bathe the three snakes daily.
Here is how she told me to do it, and I much prefer it to my old method of using the bathtub:
1. Get a sterelite container with holes (you can use your feeding container)
2. Put enough water in it so that it covers half the thickness of your snake.
Make sure the water is cool enough that you would put a one day old infant in it. (I love that rule!)
3. Get a regular human heating pad. Set it on medium. Put a towel on it. Put the sterelite on the towel.
This will maintain the heat of the water so that it doesn't get all cold.
4. Add the soaking sanitized I was given at the vet. Good for killing all the lingering bacteria/viruses and safe for the snakes to drink if they happen to.

Put the snake in this for about half an hour.

I've been doing this and have found that it works great. The water stays about 75° the whole time. The snakes don't have to be watched like a hawk like I do when they are in the bathtub.

Also, I've found that they poop while in there!

So, less viv cleaning.

I think that this system will also work great for snakes in blue and snakes with retained sheds.

The trio is already doing much better.

I HATE giving the oral antibiotics though. I feel like the biggest meanie ever. Thankfully, Kundelini is a very calm snake. Most of the times I have no problems giving them to her- but the last three time I have.
She squirmed when I put the syringe in her mouth- and her mouth started to bleed. It wasn't a lot of blood, just a little scrape. I felt terrible!
The next time and yesterday she has been inhaling some of the antibiotic. This means that she starts blowing bubbles out of her nose and opening her mouth to breath.
Yesterday I could feel her inhale it, and hear her. It sounded like someone hawking a loogie. Ack!! Ick! Poor baby girl.
I am going very slowly when giving the antibiotics, giving her a little at a time in the front of her mouth. I am afraid that if I try putting them farther down her throat that I will accidentally squirt them right into her lung.

Any advice or comfort from those who have administered oral antibiotics?

Oh, and for the curious, the vet cost me $130. She examined two of the snakes and gave me the antibiotics for one and the bath soak for all three. She said that if either of the two that didnt get antibiotics ended up turning for the worse that she would prescribe them some without me needing to pay for another visit.

 

[MysticExotics]

That sucks that you have to go through that. $130? Nice! MY RI vet trip was $300. I had a carpet python come down with an RI (the room they were previously in had a draft, under the door, & she was on the bottom shelf).
I had to give her injections. That was not fun.

I hope your snakes have a speedy recovery!

 

[Naagas]

That sucks that you have to go through that. $130? Nice! MY RI vet trip was $300. I had a carpet python come down with an RI (the room they were previously in had a draft, under the door, & she was on the bottom shelf).
I had to give her injections. That was not fun.

I hope your snakes have a speedy recovery!

$300! Ouch!
At this point I'm wonding if the injections would have been less stressful to the snake. I don't know.

 

[Caryl]

It sounds like these snakes are going to have much better care than they've had in the past! You're also fortunate to have a vet who's happy to deal with snakes.

I'm curious about the bathing. What's the logic in that? (I don't mean for that to sound testy; I really want to know.) I've only had to deal with one RI, who thankfully recovered completely.

You have my sympathies for the oral dosing. That's never fun, though it has to be done at times. Here are some ideas that may make the process a tad less stressful for all concerned.

1. If possible, get one person to hold the body of the snake while the second focuses on the dosing. This isn't absolutely necessary, of course, but it makes life easier and helps prevent problems.

2. Put an inch or so of small, very flexible rubber tube on the syringe. Insert the tubing rather than the hard plastic syringe into the snake's mouth. This is less likely to cause injury, though it can be a little harder to get in the mouth. You can buy this at most pharmacies or maybe at your vet. It's usually yellowish in color, and much softer than aquarium tubing, though aquarium tubing can work. The ideal diameter is slightly smaller than your snake's throat when not distended for feeding. You can cut and tape the tubing around the tip of the syringe to get a good fit. Squirt some distilled water through first to make sure your antibiotic won't leak and be wasted.

3. Put a dab of fish or vegetable oil on the tubing or the syringe. Hold the snake's head between your thumb and middle finger, with your index finger, grasping just behind the mouth. Gently use your other hand to work the dosing instrument into the mouth. This is usually easiest to do about 1/3 of the way up the side. Once the instrument is in, slide it a little way into the throat and administer the medicine smoothly. This gets the meds heading down the esophagus into the stomach, rather than into the lungs. Have no fear, you won't choke her by doing this. Snakes "air intake" is in the front of their mouth at the bottom. It's easily seen when the snake is feeding. It's located well forward so that the snakes can breathe during the lengthy swallowing process.

One helpful RI recovery tip I didn't see mentioned in your post is to increase the viv temps to upper 80s, say 86-87 F. Don't get to 90, which can be dangerous, but the warmer temps speed up the snakes' metabolism and seem to help them fight off the infection.

I wish you the best of luck in helping everybody recover.

 

[Naagas]

Caryl, Thanks so much!
I will try that tomorrow. I'll call the vet and see if they have any tubing.
I feel much more comfortable now that I won't suffocate the snake.

The rational behind the soaking was A) to keep the snake warm and semi-active right after getting the antibiotics in order to get them through the system faster B) to keep stuff moving through their system digestion-wise and C) to give them some humidity in a controlled environment

Does that sound all logical? I've never heard of doing that, but I think that Kundelini enjoys it after her medication. It calms her right down and then she wants to cuddle.

I'm surprised she wants anything to do with me after breathing in her meds last time!

Thanks for the good wishes!

 

[Caryl]

You're welcome.
Yes, I can see how getting the snake to move around would stimulate blood flow. I would have thought the humidity wasn't good, since most recommendations for treating RIs lean to reducing humidity as much as possible. But that's just me....
Again, best of luck!

 

[MysticExotics]

I have a friend who uses F-10 in cases of early onset of mild to moderate RI's. She raises temps & uses the F-10 in a nebulizer 2x a day for a few weeks, & it has helped her avoid antibiotics with several RI's & has helped more severe cases resolve faster. She has used this treatment in BRB's & GTP's. She has not had any RI's in her Carpet Pythons & she does not have Colubrids, but I would think this would be helpful for most species of snakes. This does not meant to replace vet care, but possibly give you something to try if you catch it in the early stages, & maybe prevent a vet trip or antibiotics.

 

[MysticExotics]

I did order some F-10, but I went to find the link to post & discovered they no longer ship to the US or Canada

**CORRECTION: I found an online place that you can get the F-10 in the US!
http://www.bigreptileworld.com/f10-disinfectant-2-c.asp

BTW, I should add, that my friend has a tremendous amount of knowledge & is very well respected & I trust her just as much, if not more than my vet,

 

[Naagas]

You're welcome.
Yes, I can see how getting the snake to move around would stimulate blood flow. I would have thought the humidity wasn't good, since most recommendations for treating RIs lean to reducing humidity as much as possible. But that's just me....
Again, best of luck!

Really? I have read that increased humidity is good for RIs here on the forum. Also from the vet. Now I will have to do some research.

 

[Naagas]

I have a friend who uses F-10 in cases of early onset of mild to moderate RI's. She raises temps & uses the F-10 in a nebulizer 2x a day for a few weeks, & it has helped her avoid antibiotics with several RI's & has helped more severe cases resolve faster. She has used this treatment in BRB's & GTP's. She has not had any RI's in her Carpet Pythons & she does not have Colubrids, but I would think this would be helpful for most species of snakes. This does not meant to replace vet care, but possibly give you something to try if you catch it in the early stages, & maybe prevent a vet trip or antibiotics.

That is the stuff the vet gave me to put in the soaking water! That makes more sense, now- put them in a high humidity environment so that they will inhale some of the F-10. The other two snakes are doing much better since starting the soaks. They have almost no symptoms.

 

[Naagas]

UPDATE: I gave Kundelini her antibiotics tonight, inserting the syringe right down her throat. It was fast and easy and no mess. Thank you, and I'm sure Kundelini is very grateful too. It can't have been comfortable inhaling that stuff!

 

[Caryl]

Really? I have read that increased humidity is good for RIs here on the forum. Also from the vet. Now I will have to do some research.

Well, to help with the research, Kathy Love's book recommends "a warm, dry environment," when dealing with RIs. Don Soderberg's says, "Reduce the size of the water bowl and keep the cage as dry as possible." Both also recommend consulting a vet, and I'm certainly not saying to go against your vet's recommendations. Strictly FYI.

UPDATE: I gave Kundelini her antibiotics tonight, inserting the syringe right down her throat. It was fast and easy and no mess. Thank you, and I'm sure Kundelini is very grateful too. It can't have been comfortable inhaling that stuff!

:cheers::cheers::cheers: That's great news! I'm so glad! :cheers::cheers:

 

[Naagas]

I have both those books in the mail, on the way.
I have to say that both those guys know their snakes.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[MysticExotics]

That is the stuff the vet gave me to put in the soaking water! That makes more sense, now- put them in a high humidity environment so that they will inhale some of the F-10. The other two snakes are doing much better since starting the soaks. They have almost no symptoms.

Well, to help with the research, Kathy Love's book recommends "a warm, dry environment," when dealing with RIs. Don Soderberg's says, "Reduce the size of the water bowl and keep the cage as dry as possible." Both also recommend consulting a vet, and I'm certainly not saying to go against your vet's recommendations. Strictly FYI.


:cheers::cheers::cheers: That's great news! I'm so glad! :cheers::cheers:

I too, have heard that you do not want to increase humidity with RI's, however, it sounds like the vet is creating a nebulizer type treatment, with the F-10, which makes sense to me.
I'm glad they're doing better! It's great to see vets in the states open to using these treatments. When I took my IJ in for an RI, & I mentioned the F-10, the vet I saw was against it, but like I said, my friend that I heard about the F-10 has an insane amount of knowledge & I trust her as much or more than vets.

 

[Naagas]

This vet actually owns snakes, including corn snakes- and I have to say that she spoils her snakes more than I do. She also knows a major breeder in the area, I don't know who exactly, and has gotten lots of tips from him.

I love having a vet with more than book knowledge!