Natal/African Soft Furred Rats...

[PikaBun]

Well I spotted one of the youngest of my females cannabilising her sister's babies and she has been biting me and the other ASFs like crazy, so today I did her in. My butter het mot. enjoyed her very much. All her siblings are super sweet and touchable so I am not sure what was with her :nope: I took a baby count after that (all in this colony of 1.4) and first litter was 8 babies, second was 4 babies and last litter was 10 babies - and she never bred. I know I froze 4 fuzzies but not which batch I took them from (was too dark to tell) and I saw her kill at least one...I hope their litter numbers improve with the stress of her gone

 

[Murdoc]

Mice vs ASF

I am just curious, which would you guys suggest would be the easiest and best to breed for feeding corns, mice or ASFs?

Mice start stinking pretty fast while ASFs tend to have no/minimal stink. Just something to think about if keeping them inside. When I pick up an adult mouse it stinks more in 3-4 hours than my ASF tank did after 4 weeks without cleaning it.

If you are only feeding corns, it will depend on where you can keep the feeders at and if you have some friends with larger snakes. A typical adult or retired breeder ASF is going to be too large for a typical adult corn to handle whereas an adult mouse is never going to outgrow a typical adult corn.

I have a small ASF setup and it is taking 3-4 weeks for the babies to get big enough to feed off for what I need right now(about 18 g). I have a Dumerils boa that is going to be my retired breeder eater.

 

[PikaBun]

You don't have any corns over 4 feet? My 4 foot something girl can eat 3 week old rats no problem so I don't worry about what to do with full grown ASFs. Maybe she's just really flexible? She can swallow one of those faster then my less then 4 foot corns can swallow a full grown mouse! I do know someone that has fed full grown hamsters to their 8 yr old corn (not every week obviously). That blew me away :eek1:

 

[Buzzard]

I am just curious, which would you guys suggest would be the easiest and best to breed for feeding corns, mice or ASFs?

I find my ASF's easier because they are less maintence. However like Captain I breed both. Hatchlings can not eat baby ASF's. So pinky mice are called for.

I also sell a lot of my mice to a local pet store as well as supply a few private people there snake food:eats02:. So keeping large amounts of mice right now is profitable (well at least they pay for themselves).

 

[Murdoc]

You don't have any corns over 4 feet? My 4 foot something girl can eat 3 week old rats no problem so I don't worry about what to do with full grown ASFs. Maybe she's just really flexible? She can swallow one of those faster then my less then 4 foot corns can swallow a full grown mouse! I do know someone that has fed full grown hamsters to their 8 yr old corn (not every week obviously). That blew me away :eek1:

Not yet anyway. Just getting into the reptile care starting last year. I think the smaller adults could be handled by an adult corn (50-60g) but they are just over half the size of "Big Momma" and think she would be stretching it. She is weighing in at 94 grams empty which is easily up into the smaller medium rat range that would take a dang good sized corn for me to comfortably feed and not worry about regurge.

 

[CassieK]

Well what ever I breed is going to have to live on a shelf in my bathroom. I have no problem getting supplemental mice, this would just be to help alleviate some of the cost to feeding the corns. My largest corn could easily eat a sml/med rat, he is a big boy. I would also want to sell the excess and or trade for rats for my other snakes if I could. The person I have been buying my f/t feeders from only has pinkies, fuzzies, and adult. I have 4 yearling corns that are on hoppers and weanlings. It is getting a little pricy spending a good $10 every week to feed them. I already have a10 gal tank a glass water bottle and a ceramic food dish, from when I had a rat. So I would just need to pick up a few things and decide what to have live in it lol. That is getting to be the hard part mice or ASFs

 

[SilverWolf]

I tried mice first, then rats. Now I'm breeding ASF's and I can say I prefer them over the mice/rats. I just never seemed to have much luck with the mice/rats in getting them to breed well. I started out with a 1.3 group. One of the females got cannibalized but since then the remaining two are breeding like crazy. I have already pulled a 1.2 from my second set of babies to start a new breeding group. They are just about old enough to start popping out babies.

I feed mine hog feed (Nutrena PorkTrack). Hog feed was recommended from a ASF breeder on another forum. I couldn't find the exact kind he was feeding in my area but after comparing the labels the one I found was very close. It's much cheaper than the Mazuri 6F. Of course you have to be careful of what kind, and no more than 16% protein. And no medicated kinds.

I don't handle my adult AFS much, just enough to move them off the babies and clean out their tubs. Not been bitten yet. lol

We feed the babies to the Bearded Dragons, Tokay Geckos, and Blue Tongue Skink on occasion. Then the older to adults get fed to the corns and ball pythons. We still buy a rat for the biggest female bp. But one rat every other week (which is the soonest she'll eat) is no biggie.

You can always try a small group and see what you think.

 

[BuckeyeSnake]

Well, my ASF's haven't yet started breeding(they're still pretty young), but I just got my first litter of Mice! Well, she's currently having them.

Knowing my luck, she'll probably eat them in the time I'm giving her to finish having them, but I'm being patient. :laugh:
Perfect timing for the snakes to feed.

 

[BuckeyeSnake]

She had 11 on her first litter.


... 4 are gone already. Luckily, by the snake, not the mother. :cheers:

 

[BuckeyeSnake]

Alright, so one of my other females is also pregnant. I thought the last couple days she looked a tad more plump than normal, but didn't think too much of it.

Well, she's definitely starting to show tonight. I'm surprised my mice are going so well from the horror stories I've heard.

 

[PikaBun]

Some mice are just born to breed! I never had luck at my home with them but the ones I breed at the pet store where I work are pretty reliable. 6 adult females with 1 male :laugh: I always pick the male based on personality before looks because once I had a male bite off 50% of a female's ear within 2 hours of being introduced! Not the way to keep breeding! - back to the 'for sale' tank :laugh: Weird thing is none of the males live as long as the females but despite all the switches the colony keeps breeding.

 

[Buzzard]

Buckeye, I started with 12 mice on Dec 30th 2008. I now have 14 colonies (most 1:5 ratio)now. I have added about 20 mice from a different strain but the rest came from the orginal 12. And I feed 10 mice a week and 15-25 for the local pet shop a week, not to include my friends collection...... So it can get crazy once you got them going good.

 

[BuckeyeSnake]

How much does a petstore pay for pinkies/mice?

 

[Buzzard]

50 cents for frozen pinkies or fuzzys, 75 cents for live/frozen mouse, 75 cents for live pinkie, fuzzy but they have to order ahead and set a pick up time at the pet store( this is to insure the pinkie/fuzzy isnt sitting there all day without being cared for) 2.50 for Asf's.

She sell her mice for 2 bucks, pinkies and fuzzy for the same(frozen or not) She sells the Asf's for 4.99 each... In this small town there isnt a huge market for rodents.

Most weeks I get about 15 bucks by selling them to the pet shop. About 10 bucks to a couple of private people. It just about pays for itself. And it beats driving an hour one way just to get mice for 8 snakes and 19 babies(right now).

 

[carnivorouszoo]

I am just curious, which would you guys suggest would be the easiest and best to breed for feeding corns, mice or ASFs?

So far I prefer the ASFs but that is mostly on sheer numbers born per litter. However I have mice, asfs, dwarf hammies and gerbils.

I think I'm beginning to like my Soft Fur's as much as my snakes. :laugh:


I gave them crickets tonight and fully enjoyed the little rats running around chasing them. They loved em! I'm going to try some mealworms soon as well.

Also tried to feed a couple crickets to my mice and Gerbils. The mice didn't seem interested at all and the gerbils killed them, but didn't eat them(I put them in a seperate, new cage though so they could have just been distracted).

Gerbils won't usually focus enough to eat when in a new environment. Their curiosity drive is too strong. Try again in their home cage. They LOVE crickets!

Sorry if I double post couldn't get the multi quote option to carry to another page.

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Mice start stinking pretty fast while ASFs tend to have no/minimal stink. Just something to think about if keeping them inside. When I pick up an adult mouse it stinks more in 3-4 hours than my ASF tank did after 4 weeks without cleaning it.

If you are only feeding corns, it will depend on where you can keep the feeders at and if you have some friends with larger snakes. A typical adult or retired breeder ASF is going to be too large for a typical adult corn to handle whereas an adult mouse is never going to outgrow a typical adult corn.

I have a small ASF setup and it is taking 3-4 weeks for the babies to get big enough to feed off for what I need right now(about 18 g). I have a Dumerils boa that is going to be my retired breeder eater.

My adult ASFs must be small for the species. They are bigger than the mice deffinitely but barely much bigger than my gerbils. Rats I have seen at pet shops are twice that. So how would an adult corn not be able to eat one?? I'm just curious.

I find my ASF's easier because they are less maintence. However like Captain I breed both. Hatchlings can not eat baby ASF's. So pinky mice are called for.

I also sell a lot of my mice to a local pet store as well as supply a few private people there snake food:eats02:. So keeping large amounts of mice right now is profitable (well at least they pay for themselves).

I really wonder on how inbred mine must be to be so much smaller than you describe. I pulled newborn ASFs right after mum birthed and they are roughly the size of the newborn mice I have. Now I wonder if I should cut all in half when feeding my brand new baby Anery?

Alright, so one of my other females is also pregnant. I thought the last couple days she looked a tad more plump than normal, but didn't think too much of it.

Well, she's definitely starting to show tonight. I'm surprised my mice are going so well from the horror stories I've heard.

I've been shocked by all the horror stories on mice as well since I have never once had a mouse that was fed and watered propperly eat her own babies but then maybe I just got good lines?

Again sorry for the double post!

 

[Buzzard]

carnivorouszoo ,

I dont know if they are inbred or not, but I will take a pic of them side by side on the next litter( within a couple of weks), Lets see if your are about the same size as mine? That would be intresting to see. I know I have a few mice that have larger pinkies than others but nothing a normal size baby snake can not handle.

 

[PikaBun]

The scientific definition of inbred, is 20 generations, in relation to mice. Doesn't that seem kinda high? :laugh:

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Wow, nice info Pikabun. I just keep hearing that ASFs are too big for corns but mine are not all that big. I've seen fancy rats that could bite the heads of my lil ASFs. I do however know some animals haveo nes that run smaller and some that run larger so maybe I just got a "smaller" line of asfs. Its all good though. As long as my Shade is fed

 

[BuckeyeSnake]

My ASF's are currently about twice the size of my mice. I'm thinking they're around 9 weeks old. They're not huge by an means, but fancy mice are so small that comparatively the ASF's are about 2X bigger.