News re: euthanasia of snakes

[dionythicus]

It has come to my attention from a nationally respected reptile and exotics veterinarian, Dr. Adolf Maas, that freezing or chilling snakes to kill them is considered cruel and abusive by all the major veterinary organizations in the country. They consider it unacceptable. This explains why...

"...as they get cold, they become torporous, that is, alert mentally but unable to move or respond. This is in contrast to mammals, which become unable to move, but also become mentally dull and comatose as they become hypothermic. As a result, reptiles and amphibians can feel their body get cold, which produces pain, but they can do nothing about it. Studies show that they can, literally, feel their cells freeze and rupture as they get further chilled, sensing pain as if they were being burned alive, but unable to move or respond."

He goes on to state, "I would like very much to eliminate this technique from all herpers' vocabulary, for the sake and respect of the animals."

I, for one, will never place another hatchling or other herp in the fridge or freezer. This has changed my view on what I thought was ok. I have done it in the past, but will not in the future. I will make myself behead them quickly or find another means by which to end their life as swiftly and painlessly as possible. I cannot recommend it in the future to anyone asking for a way to euthanise a snake and I will definitely speak out against it.

 

[Duff]

I have only had to euthanize one snake so far (a premie who was never able to get going right after several months), but I used the quick hammer to head method. It was tough and hurt for me, personally, but I knew that it was instant and didn't cause suffering for the snake, so I was able to make peace with what I did. It's good to finally see some sign of evidence that freezing is NOT humane so hopefully people will stop the practice. I think the reason it's so popular, is it's easier for the keeper, but the animal should be the priority.

 

[cassandra]

Thankfully I haven't had to put down a snake, but we pre-kill rats for our ball python and boa every feeding day, using something similar to this euthanasia machine design; we have a steel tank filled with CO2, so no need to mix baking soda and vinegar.

For more detailed reading on small animal euthanasia, I'd suggest this:
http://www.avma.org/resources/euthanasia.pdf

 

[desertanimal]

Oh, man. The first two posts elicited a visceral response from me, but I'm glad they were posted. Thanks for the info. Don't worry--I will NEVER forget it.

But I now have a question--is there any opinion about the virtues of beheading as opposed to obliterating with a hammer? If I had to, I know I could do a good, quick job with my beautiful kitchen knives, but I'm not sure I'd have the gumption for a hammer.

 

[Duff]

Don't remember exactly who posted it, but awhile back, there was a post that beheading wasn't exactly humane, as the brain is still alive for awhile after, and therefore could still feel pain. The same post (IIRC), went on to say that crushing the brain is the only, or best, instant option. That's why I chose that method, since it made sense to me. Definitely not an easy thing to do, though.

 

[desertanimal]

Phew. That's tough. But thanks for the info. What about the CO2 method that people use for their mice?

 

[Lennycorn]

Don't remember exactly who posted it, but awhile back, there was a post that beheading wasn't exactly humane, as the brain is still alive for awhile after, and therefore could still feel pain. The same post (IIRC), went on to say that crushing the brain is the only, or best, instant option. That's why I chose that method, since it made sense to me. Definitely not an easy thing to do, though.

I read the same post, so crushing the skull quickly is "preferred" way.

 

[BeckyG]

I've also heard that about beheading. The snake stays alive for a long time after the head is cut off, so it's not really humane. I've also heard that using CO2 doesn't work that well with snakes either, because they have lower oxygen requirements than mammals (or something like that). Crushing the head is the best option I've heard so far.

 

[cornspot]

I will make myself behead them quickly or find another means by which to end their life as swiftly and painlessly as

As mentioned above, this does not kill the brain immediately either. Same with CO2

When I had my ig euthanized at the vet, she already had an osteo-catheter installed. Even with euthanasia solution going directly into her bone tissue and her being sick & weak, it took about 2 minutes for her to become unconsious.

Killing reptiles humanely is definitely not as easy as mammals.

 

[Roy Munson]

Sad news, considering that I've done the fridge-to-freezer thing a number of times. But I guess it's better to know the truth than to keep doing it.

But the news is distressing, because the method was so easy and impersonal. There's no way I can do the hammer, pliers, or knife thing. Sorry-- I guess I'm just a big wuss. I keep trying to think of other ways to do this that maybe I CAN handle. But I'm making myself sick thinking about it.

I guess for hatchlings and small juvies, you could give them straight to a king snake. But I really don't like the idea. I couldn't care less about a live mouse getting it this way, but I don't like mice. I'm also not sure that I want my kings developing any stronger or more "eager" feeding/hunting response.

I wonder if placing the snake(s) in a small, opaque bag between two hard sheets (e.g. wood, metal), and running over them with the car would work? Hopefully someone can submit a good method sometime between now and pip-time.

 

[desertanimal]

I wonder if placing the snake(s) in a small, opaque bag between two hard sheets (e.g. wood, metal), and running over them with the car would work? Hopefully someone can submit a good method sometime between now and pip-time.

I think that would do it, Dean. Boy, this is a tough thread.

 

[JoannaD]

Sad news, considering that I've done the fridge-to-freezer thing a number of times. But I guess it's better to know the truth than to keep doing it.

But the news is distressing, because the method was so easy and impersonal. There's no way I can do the hammer, pliers, or knife thing. Sorry-- I guess I'm just a big wuss. I keep trying to think of other ways to do this that maybe I CAN handle. But I'm making myself sick thinking about it.

I'm with you. I can't see myself doing any of these more "humane" methods. I hope my one kingsnake is big enough next pipping season to eat the hatchlings that are not meant to be. For me that will be the easiest way. In my mind, it's "natural" even though I don't think my reasoning would pass any ethics test! uke01:


Jo

 

[Paradox]

I wonder if placing the snake(s) in a small, opaque bag between two hard sheets (e.g. wood, metal), and running over them with the car would work? Hopefully someone can submit a good method sometime between now and pip-time.

That'd definatly do the job...but for a start it would feel terrible running your beloved pet over in a tonne or so of metal, and for another thing if the bag burst you would probably find yourself getting rid of your breakfast through the wrong end...uke01:

 

[cornsnakekid92]

Hopefully someone can submit a good method sometime between now and pip-time.

Not in all situtation and it depends where you live but if it is the summer cant you just release them into the wild? Idk, probobly a flaw, just a thoaght tho.

 

[dionythicus]

Decapitation in an action taking less than 1/10th of a second is regarded as acceptably painless and preferred by the same vet who provided this information. His recommendations are decapitation, pithing (stabbing a sharp needle, or other simliar object) directly into the brain, or exsanguination (bleeding out). The latter two are NOT to be used without prior anesthesia, and he states that it is advised for the first method as well.

I haven't been able to bring myself to whack a mouse to offer prekilled to my live eaters, but I am going to learn to do the right thing, even if it makes me queasy or sad. It's even making me rethink my breeding plans, but I know that death is a natural part of the life cycle and as a responsible breeder (read: playing God), I must take it upon myself do what's right for the welfare of my animals. It ain't easy to think about and I'm sure I'll find it downright sickening when I finally have to do it, not if but when.

 

[Roy Munson]

Not in all situtation and it depends where you live but if it is the summer cant you just release them into the wild? Idk, probobly a flaw, just a thoaght tho.

It would be irresponsible to do this in areas outside of the natural range of corn snakes. Look at the problems Florida has with non-indigenous species. Within their range, I might consider the option for non-feeders. But I don't live within their range. For moderately and severely kinked hatchlings, this wouldn't be the most humane option. :shrugs:

 

[CornCrazy]

OK...I'm going to play Devil's advocate here...

How does the person who wrote that article know HOW a snake feels while it is freezing to death (I mean...it's not like the snake can tell him, right?)? I'm not saying he's wrong...I just need some proof. He mentions studies in the quote you posted. Do you have more info on those studies?

 

[Susan]

OK...I'm going to play Devil's advocate here...

How does the person who wrote that article know HOW a snake feels while it is freezing to death (I mean...it's not like the snake can tell him, right?)? I'm not saying he's wrong...I just need some proof. He mentions studies in the quote you posted. Do you have more info on those studies?

You beat me to the question! I started on a rant on some of the other methods of killing we humans have invented, used and continue to use...then decided against it to avoid creating problems. I, personally, will continue to euthanize any snakes that require it by the freezing method as I don't think the alternatives are any better. "Insert nasty, sarcastic comment about PETA, et al HERE."

 

[Dave123]

I, personally, will continue to euthanize any snakes that require it by the freezing method as I don't think the alternatives are any better.

I just think that that will take too long for them to die. I know you can't tell what a snake is thinking when it is freezing to death but you can guess it isn't a nice way to die. This will be my first year breeding and If I have any that are not meant to live I'm not too sure what I will do. I might just bring it to a vet and let them take care of it. I'm sure it will cost money and thats probably why none of the big breeders do that. I would think a herp vet would have a way of killing a snake with as less pain possible? Any of you think a herp vet would?

 

[Roy Munson]

The current thinking is that you put them in the refrigerator first, to force them into a comatose state. So the snake is believed to be completely unaware of the freezing process that follows.

The vet scenario just isn't practical, even for small breeders. Way too expensive.

I just think that that will take too long for them to die. I know you can't tell what a snake is thinking when it is freezing to death but you can guess it isn't a nice way to die. This will be my first year breeding and If I have any that are not meant to live I'm not too sure what I will do. I might just bring it to a vet and let them take care of it. I'm sure it will cost money and thats probably why none of the big breeders do that. I would think a herp vet would have a way of killing a snake with as less pain possible? Any of you think a herp vet would?