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Okeetee vs. Normal

Jimmysan00

Jimmysan00

Cornsnake-aholic
Hey i've been wondering how you can tell the difference between a baby okeetee and a baby normal corn? They both look the same to me as babies, but when they get their adult colors you can see a little difference. Not much in my opinion. Yes i know the colors on the okeetee are more bold and solid, and what not, but is there a way to tell the difference so you know what your getting at the baby stage. I have a shop that's selling a baby okeetee corn, and i would get it, but i honestly don't know if it's really an okeetee or just a normal. I already have a normal and it looks just like the okeetee in the store, and the okeetee pics i saw online. Thanks for the tips.
 
Okeetees are normals, just from a specific local, so you're right they look very similar as hatchlings. The saddles tend to be a richer dark color though, and there are subtle peeks intense orange ground color coming in even at a young age; a taste of things to come. Their thick borders are also very distinguishable. Normals will appear lighter, and will not have such rich dark saddles or thick borders.

Normally when you are dealing with Okeetee babies, you won't really see their colors start to come out until they hit about a month or more old. Once they come into their full colors, most Okeetees look nothing like a run of the mill normal corn.

The main thing about Okeetees is preserving that locality bloodline. Obviously, some Okeetees will look better than others, but for the most part, breeders breed specifically for the traits that made the Okeetee corn famous.

Here's a few shots to compare:

Young Normal

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Young Okeetee (jmksnakes)

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Adult Normal

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Adult Okeetee (Courtesy of SMR - my abbotts aren't adults yet)

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Okeetees are a selectively bred variety of normal. They are also a "locality" variety, so you need to know if you are looking at a locality Okeetee or an Okeetee-phase normal. Some of the best example of the Okeetee-phase are further identified by calling them "Abbott's Okeetees". Lee Abbott selectively bred his line to have distinctively thick borders and very rich coloration. Other breeders of exceptional Okeetee-phase snakes are Kathy Love (Love-line Okeetees) and Don Soderberf of South Mountain Reptiles.

Identifying an Okeetee-phase hatchling from "regular" normal hatchlings can be difficult for the untrained eye. Knowing what the parents looked like is often a big help. Unfortunately, pet stores and wholesale breeders know that the "name" sells and will call any normal an "Okeetee" when it really isn't. Plus, normals vary extensively in their coloration so you can have an entire collection of nothing but normals and not have any two that look the exactly the same. The normal in your avatar is a very nice normal, but I would not classify it as an Okeetee-phase as the saddle borders are not quite large enough and the ground color is not as red enough. Close, but just not quite. Run a Search in the Photo Gallery to find some wonderful examples of Okeetee-phase snakes.
 
The snake in my avatar is my normal corn. I love her. Thank you all so very much. I thought i was the only one that saw the big similarities. Adult Okeetee's look sweet. That's why i want to get one. I see the big difference in adults and i can't wait.
 
My little Abbott's Okeetee... http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72649

When I went to get him at the Anaheim show, I was fortunate enough to have Vinny (VinnyJ) help me out in choosing the best looking one among the bunch. Carol also helped explaining that the colors in the settle had to be as dark as possible, starting from black in the outsides to dark brown in the middle). The background color (orange dots in the babies) should be as bright as possible.

The reason you pick the darkest babies is because all the colors will fade as the snake grows.

I hope my Kinky will grow to be as nice looking as one of the Abbott's breeders.
 
As babies, you've just got to trust the seller (no matter if phase or locality). Many a "normal" has been sold under the nickname over the years. I don't think an eye can possibly be trained to know definitively. I had so much variation in my babies, the best I could do is pick out ones that looked clean, pretty, and had redder heads and give them a couple of months to grow. And many that I gave away as pet quality turned out to be screamers.
 
jpccusa said:
So basically it is a LUCK factor...
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No, more of an educated guess factor.

Don't forget there are two answers when asking the question "What is an Okeetee."
1. The Okeetee "look". Abbott's are probably the best example of what an Okeetee should look like. Thick black borders with bright orange and red colors. :D The look doesn't necessarily come from, or show up, in just hunt club lines.
2. The Okeetee "locality". These are animals that came directly descended from hunt club animals. They may, or may not, have the thick black borders and bright orange colors together, separately, or indifferent. ;)

I'm satisfied with both answers and personally prefer the Okeetee "look" regardless of the hunt club descendency.

D80
 
Drizzt80 said:
I'm satisfied with both answers and personally prefer the Okeetee "look" regardless of the hunt club descendency.

D80
Click to expand...

Me too, but again, when choosing based on looks, what kind of educated guess would you take to make sure you are geting a baby that will grow into a nice looking Okeetee and not so much into a normal?
 
jpccusa said:
My little Abbott's Okeetee... http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72649

When I went to get him at the Anaheim show, I was fortunate enough to have Vinny (VinnyJ) help me out in choosing the best looking one among the bunch. Carol also helped explaining that the colors in the settle had to be as dark as possible, starting from black in the outsides to dark brown in the middle). The background color (orange dots in the babies) should be as bright as possible.

The reason you pick the darkest babies is because all the colors will fade as the snake grows.

I hope my Kinky will grow to be as nice looking as one of the Abbott's breeders.
Click to expand...

see! This is exactly why i posted this thread. My snake which was called a normal looks exactly the same as your okeetee snake.
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i will provide more pics if needed.
 
jpccusa said:
what kind of educated guess would you take to make sure you are geting a baby that will grow into a nice looking Okeetee and not so much into a normal?
Click to expand...
Saddles that are already so dark you can't even see the black outlining. The black outlining that you can see is thick thick thick. Look especially near the tail. The Okeetee's (looks) that I really adore looking at are the ones that don't even have red in their saddles as you get near the tail because the black outline has taken them over!! :eek: The hatchling comes out of the egg (first shed) and the ground color is already established with not just hints of orange, but is orange, and not just plain gray.

. . . that help?! ;)

D80
 
you are right! I always thought they looked about the same, but as i looked loser and compared them side by side, i noticed the okeetee is a little darker, at least double. Cool thanks. OH btw The first pic was right after she ate. It's not a tumor.Not very noticeable for a 10g snake eating a pinky, but it's noticeable at least.
 
Drizzt80 said:
Saddles that are already so dark you can't even see the black outlining. The black outlining that you can see is thick thick thick. Look especially near the tail. The Okeetee's (looks) that I really adore looking at are the ones that don't even have red in their saddles as you get near the tail because the black outline has taken them over!! :eek: The hatchling comes out of the egg (first shed) and the ground color is already established with not just hints of orange, but is orange, and not just plain gray.

. . . that help?! ;)

D80
Click to expand...

That did help! I will make sure to look closer to the tail (not that now it matters much :)). I was always fixated at saddles in the middle of the snake.
Thanks D80

you are right! I always thought they looked about the same, but as i looked loser and compared them side by side, i noticed the okeetee is a little darker, at least double. Cool thanks.
Click to expand...
I'm glad I could help.
 
Jimmysan00 said:
The snake in my avatar is my normal corn. I love her. Thank you all so very much. I thought i was the only one that saw the big similarities. Adult Okeetee's look sweet. That's why i want to get one. I see the big difference in adults and i can't wait.
Click to expand...

I don't get it James :shrugs:

In the above post you say that the snake in your avatar is your normal corn, but the pictures you've posted in this thread are of a completely different animal :confused:
 
no...

The Snake Guru said:
So at the risk of starting the conversation again.....I didn't see anything about a major color change say from having the dark black outlines to disappearing within a matter of sheds at aproximately 2 years old?

And the fact that the "normal" I have doesn't look anything close to the "normal" adult posted?

~B~
Click to expand...

no i think that's the first time i've ever seen that picture
 
sus the snake in my avatar is a normal, and my snake which is the pics i provided are a normal also. Am i wrong?
 
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