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Original Sin 2013: The Tails of Two Tesseras

dave partington

dave partington

Crazy Dave
The Original Tesseras from Don & Graham.

CornSnake_The_Original_Tessera_Corn_Snakes_Big.jpg
 
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I'm not sure what to say, DP. They're all amazing! But I think I like the motleys more than the tesseras.
 
Awesome

Awesome babies, Dave. We all have seen so many Tesseras, they are somewhat passe, but those non-Tesseras are out of this world (as is so typical with Tessera sibs that are not Tesseras). Kudos. I wonder if we haven't been somewhat diluting the Tessera line by all the out-crossing (of COURSE we are) so it's great that you have acorns that fell so close to the tree.
 
The non-tessera babies are out of this world HOT!!!!

Almost festive? Kinda pumpkin-y!!

Great Halloween gifts Dave! ;)
 
Two Baby is smoking! I'd gladly take it off your hands, haha! Baby Ore is great too! Also, neat how it seems all the tessera babies have perfect stripes. Awesome litter, congrats! :cool:
 
Cool!

So Dave, do you think the Tesseras with reduced side pattern are SUPER Tesseras, or Motley Tesseras? They don't look quite right for Motley Tesseras do they. How do you know the NON-Tess is a Motley? The belly pattern of ALL Tessera offspring is all over the place, including Normals with a Motley looking belly pattern.

I see Yellow Jacket in this clutch. I am beginning to think it is a SUPER as well. Look at both parents. You guys probably can not tell, but I believe both of them are Het YJ. YJ seems to be a gene, where it really shows up better on males. Even so, it only has a minor effect as Het. Look at the background area on the Male. It is ever so slightly hypomelanistic, which is an effect of YJ. My original Tessera was produced from one of the original Tesseras and it has proven to be het for YJ. The hatchlings brings two Het YJ together and produced homo YJ, which jump out at you and I bet they are males.

The "Motley" that was produce from this clutch should be named "Marker". It is as cool as it gets, but not a Corn Snake Motley pheno type at all! Either, there is another gene in the original Tesseras, OR that is a very nice Motley SUPER Jungle Corn.

The "Improvement" in NON-Tessera offspring is caused by something. It would seem that the Improvement we see in Tess x Corn breedings, is nothing compare to the Improvement we will see in Tess x Tess breedings. I will have a BUNCH of Tess x Tess breedings in 2014. I hope to see this "Super Improvement" in those clutches as well.
 
ecreipeoj said:
So Dave, do you think the Tesseras with reduced side pattern are SUPER Tesseras, or Motley Tesseras? They don't look quite right for Motley Tesseras do they. How do you know the NON-Tess is a Motley? The belly pattern of ALL Tessera offspring is all over the place, including Normals with a Motley looking belly pattern.

I see Yellow Jacket in this clutch. I am beginning to think it is a SUPER as well. Look at both parents. You guys probably can not tell, but I believe both of them are Het YJ. YJ seems to be a gene, where it really shows up better on males. Even so, it only has a minor effect as Het. Look at the background area on the Male. It is ever so slightly hypomelanistic, which is an effect of YJ. My original Tessera was produced from one of the original Tesseras and it has proven to be het for YJ. The hatchlings brings two Het YJ together and produced homo YJ, which jump out at you and I bet they are males.

The "Motley" that was produce from this clutch should be named "Marker". It is as cool as it gets, but not a Corn Snake Motley pheno type at all! Either, there is another gene in the original Tesseras, OR that is a very nice Motley SUPER Jungle Corn.

The "Improvement" in NON-Tessera offspring is caused by something. It would seem that the Improvement we see in Tess x Corn breedings, is nothing compare to the Improvement we will see in Tess x Tess breedings. I will have a BUNCH of Tess x Tess breedings in 2014. I hope to see this "Super Improvement" in those clutches as well.
Click to expand...

Hey Joe.
I haven't said any of them are anything. Just have to raise them up and see what they become.
I don't have any YJ in my collection. I assumed the color is coming from the Okeetee background parentage.
Possibly Buckskin? I don't have any Buckskin Okees though for comparison.
But just because something looks like YJ or Motley or whatever does not mean anything conclusive.

If I remember correctly, Tessera was originally
(before they were ever out-crossed, before the morph was named, before the inheritability of F-1's was known),
I believe I read where someone was working on producing an Okeetee Motley project, and this is where the original 3.1 came from.
One of the original males is deceased.

At this point in time I am going thru my inventory and reducing numbers by a few hundred.
I like having these original Tess and plan to raise all of these up,
for sib X sib (F3) and also do some Father X daughter/Mother X son crossings,
to see how much further the line can be refined. & what else pops out.
Original baseline locality and original baseline morphs are of particular interest to me.

Thanks for all the comments and interest in these.

Baby 2 has belly checkers.
All the rest of them, like the parents, have no belly checkers.
Guess I'll just keep breeding them along and see what happens next.
And post new threads asking "what morph is this?" with descriptions of inheritance & such.
I'll leave it to others more knowledgeable than myself to do the identification.
Thanks for sharing
 
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dave partington said:
Hey Joe.
I haven't said any of them are anything. Just have to raise them up and see what they become.
I don't have any YJ in my collection. I assumed the color is coming from the Okeetee background parentage.
Possibly Buckskin? I don't have any Buckskin Okees though for comparison.
But just because something looks like YJ or Motley or whatever does not mean anything conclusive.

If I remember correctly, Tessera was originally
(before they were ever out-crossed, before the morph was named, before the inheritability of F-1's was known),
I believe I read where someone was working on producing an Okeetee Motley project, and this is where the original 3.1 came from.
One of the original males is deceased.

At this point in time I am going thru my inventory and reducing numbers by a few hundred.
I like having these original Tess and plan to raise all of these up,
for sib X sib (F3) and also do some Father X daughter/Mother X son crossings,
to see how much further the line can be refined. & what else pops out.
Original baseline locality and original baseline morphs are of particular interest to me.

Thanks for all the comments and interest in these.

Baby 2 has belly checkers.
All the rest of them, like the parents, have no belly checkers.
Guess I'll just keep breeding them along and see what happens next.
And post new threads asking "what morph is this?" with descriptions of inheritance & such.
I'll leave it to others more knowledgeable than myself to do the identification.
Thanks for sharing
Click to expand...
OK, I will tell you what I see.

It is so cool that you have the sole surviving pair of Tesseras. If they are not, I would register them with the ACR. Do you know if the male Tessera you have is the one that KJ first bred or Don S? The reason I ask is because my original Tessera was bred by KJ, and if I knew, I could add him to the beginning of ACR 8375 http://herpregistry.com/acr/Registry.php?idnum=8375

I think we can all agree that any new gene needs to be tested by more than the discover. I know when I discovered Lava, I needed Don S and others to reproduce my results before the Lava Theory was accepted as true.

I can not access the original Thread that introduced Tesseras on this forum. Perhaps it was in a Personal Forum that I can no longer access, like my old Personal Forum here. Here is the thread I am talking about:

Tessera Cornsnake (The newest mutation and the mode of inheritance ) http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70946

I did find a similar Thread on The Source:

The newest corn snake gene: Tessera 1-10-9 http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=7765&highlight=Tessera

Tessera surprises 6-14-10 http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=9504&highlight=Tessera

Don’t we need a Tessera INDEX? There is information all over the place. Before I say what I think about the first Tessera Theory, I need to come clean all the way. KJ started the first Tessera Thread. He has posted things about me on the BIO. I have never addressed them on the BIO, but I have here in this Thread:

Dissatisfied Customer Claims 3-19-10: http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=9179

His claim against me is that I sold him a group of Het Hypo Plasmas that did not prove to ALL be het for HYPO. I addressed this completely in the above thread. The day Rich Z is held responsible for his Hypo lines not producing Hypo as expected, is the day I will be held responsible for a Rich Z line Hypo not reproducing as expected. The reason I have not respond in the BIO, is because of the difference between the real story in the above thread and the lies that are told in the BIO and believed as truths by others. If I respond on the BIO, I will go all the way.


Tessera Offspring 2012 2-7-12 http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=10582&highlight=Tessera

Tessera Striped 8-6-12 http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=10221&highlight=Tessera

Hypo Super Corn 9-11-12: http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=10717&highlight=Tessera

King snake influence in Tessera? 1-12-13 http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127993&highlight=tessera+california+king


The two above Threads prompted me to post my first Tessera Theory that basically stated that I believed the dominant Tessera gene came from the Striped California King Snake.

Tessera Improvement Theory 7-26-13: http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=10946

Today, after three years of breeding Tessera, my peer review of the original Tessera Theory is it is FALSE! There are Amel, Snow and Anery Tesseras (AKA, Striped Super Corns in the original Thread. The Normals have tons of Markers and the belly patterns of Tesseras after the originals is ALL over the place the same as the belly patterns of the Non-Tessera offspring all the way up to Normals with a Motley looking ventral. It is actually a Striped California King Snake ventral.

Super Tessera 3-5-13 http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129101&highlight=Tessera

Rich Hume posted the above thread with a proven Super Tessera (Homo Tessera) . The side pattern is reduced when compared to a Tessera (Het Tessera). Your clutch has produced the same pheno as Rich Hume’s Super Tessera, so it proves his Theory. You have Super Tess (homo Tess), Tess (Het Tess) and “Normals”, one with a plain belly and one with checkers, but are they normal checkering?

Tessera ventral: 7-24-13 http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131837&highlight=Tessera

When the first 2.1 Tesseras with clear belly patterns were bred into other Corn Snake lines, their belly patterns were all over the place, between Corn Snakes and Striped California King Snake ventral patterns. The Non-Tess also showed similar ventrals, but not as much.

Calling the Tessera EXPERTS! 8-17-13 http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132131&highlight=Tessera

Dave, a question I have about the pair of Tesseras you have, is are they het for Striped or Motley at all? Don S must know this I believe. Were they het Striped or Motley or was it introduced by him?

Based upon your breeding Dave, I will say the following:
We have the SUPER Corn Snake we have been longing for, but there are others, such as Diffused, Masque, Border-less, Yellow Jacket and RedCoat. Each one has a het pheno, and a homo pheno which is improved and therefore deserving of the Super label.

What is so special about our Mutant Corn Snakes? Is it their purity which is their virtue? Have somebody LIE to you and tell you a Hybrid is a new Corn Snake gene, and you are orgasmic! Introduce a Hybrid Corn that is cooler than any Snake you have ever seen and they are vomited on, because they are not virtuous, or not pure.

I challenges anybody to “Prove” your mutant Corn, or mutant Corn Combine is Pure Corn, and therefore virtuous. Hunt Club Okeetee breeders excluded. I can prove my Landrace Lavas, Landrace Sunkissed, and soon to come Landrace Anerys and Landrace Goldens, are PURE Corn Snake. Their linage is registered in the ACR when it happened, to their wild caught parents and is there for peer review today. Corn Snakes only exist, if we use the study of their wild populations. This is the definition of a pure Corn Snake. Are they virtuous, causing climatic type responses for them? NO WAY.

What is WRONG with our Corn Snake community? You let yourself be lied to, to create a false illusion of purity in our Mutant Corn Snakes, and this is what you like about Corns Snakes? Corn Snakes are the COOLEST Snake in the World, because of the reason I work with them. They have more discovered genetic genes than any other Snake. Corn Snake Breeders have lead the way in discovering and explaining Snake genes without question. Other groups of Snake enthusiast model their knowledge and planning of breedings, base upon what we have learned and shared about snake genetics. We are generations ahead of even the Ball Python World. I talked to one at a show that had most new combines, and he could tell me some about their inheritance, but nothing like we know about Corn Snake genes. Other Snake Worlds even use our Corn Snake names for some of their new genes. We are defiantly the leader of the pack genetically.

Yellow Disease 9-9-11: http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=10472&highlight=Tessera

Dave, You definitely have the Yellow Disease in your breeding. Above is a thread I have started about it when I first really noticed it. I name Rich Z and may not be completely complementary, but I state opinions and facts, and avoid personal attacks always. I have to, to be allowed to post on this forum. I get sarcastic personal attacks to this day, even when I do my best to avoid personal attacks. The Yellow Disease, AKA, Yellow Jacket, Buf, and others ALL are co-dominant and have a Super as far as I can tell. I won’t say for Buf for sure, but Yellow Jackets express a Super Yellow Jacket pheno. I did not discover it, it is everywhere. It is in our Lavenders and Anery lines especially because it acts like a hypo, and you know everybody likes the lighter siblings. I really LIKE YJ's on some combines, but you can't make RED with it in the mix. I appreciate getting the YJ gene from Rich Z, now that I know what it is.

I bred California King Snakes for at least a decade. I worked mainly with Amels, because California does not allow the sale of native species except Amels. Cal. Kings, have a co-dominant Striped gene, and a co-dominant Yellow gene, if I apply my knowledge now to what I bred way back when. The three possible combos would be Striped/Striped, Striped/Banded, and Banded/Banded. The same would be true of the Yellow gene, Yellow/Yellow, Yellow/White, and White/White. Do you think that only California King Snake genes were moved into Corn Snakes?

Do you think that the Amel gene in both are compatible by coincidence alone? How about one of the Cal King Lavender genes, is one compatible with our Lavender gene? How many of the Amel King subspecies are compatible with the Corn Snake Amel gene? Are there any that are not? Are there any Amel genes in Tri-colors that are compatible with the Amel Corn Snake gene? YES Do you accept this as pure coincidence? I know it is not pure coincidence, because I was there.

Do we ever get to ask the person who previously owned the original 2.1 Tesseras questions? He also claims to have produced the first Lavender Corn Snake. Only a few, know who he is. We could learn a lot from somebody who had them before KJ. Where is KJ now? He ask that of me.

Some how we need to hit the reset button, and ALL get on the same page. If we can do this again, our silly Corn Snake Hobby will explode again, and cause all kinds of climatic responses.

We do know there is a Super form of Tessera, but we do not know how they will look in Striped, Motley, Sunkissed, Bloodred and other pattern altering genes. I still say that Tesseras are SUPER in every way and I have done nothing except look for the truth about them. I am sorry to say it, but they are the next evolution of Corn Snake genetics. If it was man made so what. Everything we produce is man made.
 
Joe, if you're so sure that Tessera's are not pure, why have you not proven that?

Edit to add:
personally, I don't care if they are, or not.
 
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