Pastel Ghost Motley vs Pastel Motley

[Susan]

I'm certainly not getting heated.

Tyflier here can't handle an opposing opinion in regards to terminology or the use of a "publication."

Very interesting information, Susan...I will have to pull out my older copies and check it out...Though I thought the CMG has only been out since 2005...But maybe I'm crazy!

You're not crazy, but I didn't mention the CMG at all.

 

[Roy Munson]

I've never considered the term "pastel" to imply hypo at all. And that's not just a result of having read the CMGs. It's not an area of intense interest for me, so I can't even remember what the CMGs say about it. :shrugs:

But I will say one thing about the CMG: It's the best thing to happen in corn morph id since McEachern's original Color Guide. I think that the recent editions' chapter about "Neural Crest Migration" theory is a must-read for anyone who really seeks to understand the causes and effects of color/pattern mutation in corns.

 

[jaxom1957]

Just thought I would stir the pot a little more. IMO, the term "pastel" could even be used to describe the more colorful lavenders and hypo lavenders. I think it would come in handy as some people don't want or care for the peachy color in their lavenders.

I use the term to describe ANY snake of ANY morph that exhibits peach or pink undertones that are not normally associated with the nominative morph. My Snow het Anery Lavender is pastel, as anyone who has held him has commented on his unusual peach tones.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

You're not crazy, but I didn't mention the CMG at all.

You're right! :bang: I read that sentence COMPLETELY wrong. Some how Cornsnake Manual morphed into Cornsnake Morph Guide when I read the sentence real quick. Duh!



Tyflier, while I am unsure why you are so sensitive to feel your integrity, intelligence and resources insulted, I did not say anything of the sort. I do not agree with you, plain and simple...I also do not agree with your thinking that the CMG is the end-all of terminology definition. I did not say it wasn't a good resource (I think quite the contrary, I recommend it to everyone who asks for Cornsnake books), but the definition the CMG provided that you posted does not back up your original reply to this thread, as your original reply simply stated your opinion as a definite. We are simply going to have to agree to disagree on the matter. :shrugs:



O and Russell, I think I am crazy. I have an hour commute to & from work, and I talk to myself on the way home...Don't do it on the way to work, only on the way home (I think because I listen to a morning show on the way to work so I have something to keep my mind on). :crazy02:

 

[tyflier]

...Well, I really don't think the CMG is the absolute in defining terminology.

You also didn't say "the '07 Cornsnake Morph Guide suggests" but made a statement as if it is a definite...

First...all three of us "original responders" posted our opinions...not ONE of us stated they were opinions, yet you singled me out. That is an insult to my integrity, if not a downright attack.

The above quote also shows a distinct lack of trust in my cited resource, which DOES agree with MY opinion as well as yours...it states that everyone uses the terms differently, which is what I was merely trying to point out. So what's the problem? Better yet...where's the contradiction?

...Tyflier here can't handle an opposing opinion in regards to terminology or the use of a "publication."...

This statement is a direct attack on both my integrity and my character. Anyone who has been around and read enough of my posts knows that this is simply not the case. It is boldfaced and outright accusatory, blatantly incorrect, and and effort to insult and attack me publicly...for NO reason. I have never, in my time on this forum, and with my thousands of posts, primairly occuring in "hot topics", been unaccepting of another person's opinion. Ever. That is directly insulting AND attacking of my character.

Your first post:

...Pastel Motley is a Selective Bred Ghost while a Ghost Motley is just a regular Ghost (Question should be what is difference between Pastel Motley & Ghost Motley as Pastel Motley & Pastel Ghost Motley would be the same thing)....

Hmm...seems to be stated as no less fact than my first post. What's the problem? :shrugs:

There is another insult, wherein you state that I am contradictory, yet make no effort to show how or why(because I wasn't), and don't even follow up when I do reply and show how my opinion is NOT contradictory to what I posted. Yup...another personal attack of my character.

The bottom line is...you have never once addressed what I have stated in a manner to debate my opinion as false. Instead, what you have done is insinuate that I am unaccepting of your opinion(patently not true), insult my intelligence and choice of resources(just wrong), and claim that I am contradictory, which implies a lack of understanding and knowledge, yet failed to show any real contradictions in my post.

In other words...you never debated the issue, you debated me and my resources. When other folks have posted an opinion that was similar to mine, you accepted them...but not mine. Am I dreaming? Perhaps it is because I use a guide that is authored by someone you have personal issues with? Perhaps my opinion just tickled you the wrong way? Perhaps you simply don't like me?

Whatever the reasons, I truly couldn't care less. Don't confuse my defense of my own honor and integrity as being "heated". I don't appreciate insults to my intelligence, my integrity, or my honor, from you or anyone else...for any reason.

I am not angry...as I said this whole topic, most importantly your opinion of me, are not important enough for me to waste energy on. I will however, continue to defend my honor and my character from your attacks.

And, FWIW...the private messages that I have recieved over the past 2 days lead me firmly to believe that I am not the only person who has seen your posts as blatant attacks against me. Perhaps YOU are the one that should take a pill and relax. Learn how to debate an issue, rather than attack an individual...

 

[Russell]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tyflier again....

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I think perhaps you should stop assuming things and making statements about my thoughts and feelings when you don't know. I love how you accused me of not liking Chuck and then in the same breath not liking you...Did I say that? If I have something to say, I will say it...I will directly state what I think of your character or your attitude. I made no comment on you as a person, but disagreed with your opinion. I'm sorry you can't differentiate the two.

Give it up already, I stated "we will have to agree to disagree on the matter" and you should at least agree with that.

I will admit that I did not comprehend why you were quoting the CMG like you did. You've explained yourself, and I 100% understand. However, why the long-winded posts when you could have just stated one paragraph of what you just had, I don't know. :shrugs:

And, FWIW...I don't care what was private messaged to you. I'm not in a mood to listen to you whine about how you feel that your "integrity, intelligence and resources" were insulted and/or victimized. uke01: Why are you trying to play a victim as if I said "Tyflier has no idea what he's talking about, he's stupid and no one should listen to him." I did not say anything of the sort, I said that I agree with someone else and said that is how I purchased animals from a well known breeder. I feel like I'm bashing my head into a brick wall replying to you. :bang:

 

[Vinman]

the truth

What's the difference?

Let me make things clear I been around for more than 20 years I remember when there was only anery, motley , hypo, albino. that was it . there is no such thing as a pastel ghost motley, none, sorry guys. here how it goes

first there was a pastel motley = anery, motley, hypo.

then there was a pastel ghost = hypo/anery A.

This is a very pastel colored ghost, mostly a light pink, lavender/blue . this term came many years latter. They used the term to seperate the diffrent colored ghost. Some were dark and nasty looking and some were this beautiful pastel colored and thats were the name came in.

The problem is that novices to the corn morphs, combined the name and it is a wrong term. No such corn called a pastel ghost motley. Anyone who uses this term just shows how little they know about corn morphs. Sorry but that is the history of the name like it or not.

 

[Rich Z]

I had to dredge up my old description of the Pastel Motleys from the dustbin of my price list. Since I don't really work with them any longer (at least not on purpose) I took down the description of them. Anyway, here's what I said about them a while back:

Although these have been around for a long while, this cultivar seems to cause a lot of confusion for some people

In a nutshell, this is a Ghost Motley. In other words, triple homozygous for 'A' Anerythrism, 'A' Hypomelanism, and Motley. I think the term "Pastel" throws a lot of people, and perhaps with good reason. Some of the Pastel Motleys are definitely a cut above the rest of them. Some will have these gorgeous pastel pink blotches on them that looks nothing at all like what you would think a "Ghost Motley" should look like.

The problem is, not all will turn out looking like that, nor is it predictable (at least to me) which babies will color up more then the other ones. So far, it appears that this pinkish coloration is limited to males only, but I wouldn't really want to take any wagers on it remaining so.

My original animals came from Mark Bell, and at that time, my questions about the actual ancestry did not produce any satisfactory answers. Not through any fault of Mark, since I believe he just did not recall. So where the actual original source of this line came from is still rather a mystery. And if I recall correctly, the original Pastel Motley adults I saw of Mark Bell's were notable because of their very high contrast and nearly white background color. So no, I really don't know where this pink colored variety came from at all, nor how widespread it is in all of the rest of the lines available.

One other source of confusion is that some of these can have a kind of lavender hue to them as babies, and some people will readily confuse them as being Lavender Motleys. It normally takes seeing both side by side to be able to tell the difference, but with not that many Lavender Motleys yet out in the marketplace, not too many people have the opportunity to be able to do that.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Thank you for posting that, Rich...I was looking for your definition with no luck (was actually looking for the adults I bought on your site ~ but you had removed that section by now of course).

Very cool information, Vin! Like hearing the "history" behind certain names.

 

[Susan]

I have already sent warnings that if the combative tone of this thread continued, that I would lock this thread. I really don't wish to do this as this discussion is on a topic that I am personally interested and involved in. In fact, after reading the more recent posts, I had wished to be able to continue with this discussion. However, my warnings have gone unheeded. In fact, I am now receiving Reported Post e-mails concerning this thread. My personal feelings concerning this thread can no longer sway my decision. I am obligated now to close this thread.