Petco Nightmare (Cohabbing not so great)

[JustineNYC]

Actually, Justine... if you read this entire thread, you would notice that I am very "anti-cohab". When I'm saying that it can be done successfully, I'm citing that there are people who keep multiple snakes together and have it work out. I'm not going to advise ANYONE to do it, or ever suggest to a newbie that it is okay. I will never give anyone instructions to cohab their snake.

If anyone decides to cohab, they are taking a risk. I'm not going to instruct them how to cohab. However, I am a fair person. I acknowledge that some people do cohab snakes without problems. This is BY FAR the exception rather than the rule - but that doesn't mean we can completely ignore it.

It's not irresponsible. It's being honest.

You *can* keep a snake without any extra heat source. In fact, I have a few without heat right now. I'm waiting on my rack, and the heat that's coming with it. To compensate, I keep those snakes in a warmer part of my house, and have been feeding smaller (yet slightly more frequent) meals. I do it. Would I recommend it to a newbie? NO. I have done several things to lessen the chances of having problems. I won't go into them here, but I am carefully monitoring the situation.

In short, that is why THIS page exists. Notice there is a long section from Kathy Love about both cohab and going against the recommended norm. It has been done. I'm not going to lie to someone and say that it can never be done successfully. I will tell someone that it is not a good idea and they will probably not be able to do it.

I did read the entire thread and I know your anti cohab. You did mention 'it can be done' though, and Im asking how.

 

[Jrgh17]

I did read the entire thread and I know your anti cohab. You did mention 'it can be done' though, and Im asking how.

I'll PM you. I'm not going to give some newbie instructions on how to do it so they'll think their snakes will be okay.

 

[JustineNYC]

I'll PM you. I'm not going to give some newbie instructions on how to do it so they'll think their snakes will be okay.

Ah see. That was my point. You wont "give a newbie instructions on how to do it so theyll think their snakes will be Ok" but its alright to say

"Can it be done? Yes"

"Has it been done? Yes" with absolutely NO instructions on how to do it correctly.

Its the same thing bud, but at least with instructions, their better equipt.

BTW, I am not going to co-hab, was just making a point

 

[Jrgh17]

Ah see. That was my point. You wont "give a newbie instructions on how to do it so theyll think their snakes will be Ok" but its alright to say

"Can it be done? Yes"

"Has it been done? Yes" with absolutely NO instructions on how to do it correctly.

Its the same thing bud, but at least with instructions, their better equipt.

BTW, I am not going to co-hab, was just making a point

I get the point. But that doesn't change my position. I am not going to lie and say it has never been done without problems. I'm also not going to encourage anyone to cohab by providing instructions. If they want to know how to cohab, there's an FAQ which I already linked to.

 

[Roy Munson]

why you go away and this thing blows up.

Since i seem to be the only one to step up here, i cohab my snakes, am I a newbie yes, did i read on here all about co-habing before i did it yes. I also talked to people outside this forum and who own reptile shops, and i dont mean petco, and they all said that you can house two corns together.

And we KNOW that these pet store staff members NEVER exaggerate their expertise, particularly to those who know very little. You wouldn't believe the things I've heard "reptile shop" staff telling people. A newbie cannot do it safely, and even the most experienced corn keeper can't house hatchlings together without serious risk. Do they do it anyway? Sure! People do lots of risky things.

While i cant say they are doing better or worse if they were not living together, i know this they are eating regularly, havnt eaten each other, and have more than enough space to move around. Do i not care about my snakes, NO, if you see the way my dogs live you know i care about animals.

Are you saying that YOURS are eating regularly? What does that mean? You now have TWO successful feedings that comprise your entire corn-feeding experience? Why DO you cohab? Who/what does it benefit?

Do i care if you value my opion not really, most have made it a point to bash and redicule any one who co-habs. This is a public forum so everyone has their own opions and has the right to say them, with every forum you go to there are always the fanatics that have to everyone follow their ways if not are bashed. Thats ok i can handle it. Hopefully we can all be adults( well the ones that actually are) and help those that actually have problems with their snakes even if they co-hab.

Hah! "Hopefully we can all be adults..."? I'm having trouble finding the maturity in your first post in this thread:

WOW that makes me wonder.......................oh wait i dont care and ill keep co habing mine.

Maybe you consider thumbing your nose at explicit evidence to be adult behavior, but I don't. Your initial post was trollish, and I don't think there's any other way to interpret it. You elicited a certain type of reply, and that's what you got.

 

[starsevol]

Ah Dean, I so wish I could rep you!

 

[ZoologyMajor]

1) pet stores cohab because it is all about profit and space.

2) cohab can be done but it doesn't mean it should be

3) No matter how lovable they are corns are still wild animals. Wild animals should never be taken for granted no matter how nice they are. They are going to do what instinct and personality compels them to do. Failure to realize this can result in incidents like that of a certain Vegas magician and tiger. But instead of you getting hurt it will be the other snake.

4) Anyone who has ever done any research on snakes would know that most snake species live solitary lives and come together only for mating.

 

[Lennycorn]

1) pet stores cohab because it is all about profit and space.

2) cohab can be done but it doesn't mean it should be

3) No matter how lovable they are corns are still wild animals. Wild animals should never be taken for granted no matter how nice they are. They are going to do what instinct and personality compels them to do. Failure to realize this can result in incidents like that of a certain Vegas magician and tiger. But instead of you getting hurt it will be the other snake.

4) Anyone who has ever done any research on snakes would know that most snake species live solitary lives and come together only for mating.

BINGO!!!!:smash::smash:

 

[bsr8129]

And we KNOW that these pet store staff members NEVER exaggerate their expertise, particularly to those who know very little. You wouldn't believe the things I've heard "reptile shop" staff telling people. A newbie cannot do it safely, and even the most experienced corn keeper can't house hatchlings together without serious risk. Do they do it anyway? Sure! People do lots of risky things.

Are you saying that YOURS are eating regularly? What does that mean? You now have TWO successful feedings that comprise your entire corn-feeding experience? Why DO you cohab? Who/what does it benefit?

Hah! "Hopefully we can all be adults..."? I'm having trouble finding the maturity in your first post in this thread:



Maybe you consider thumbing your nose at explicit evidence to be adult behavior, but I don't. Your initial post was trollish, and I don't think there's any other way to interpret it. You elicited a certain type of reply, and that's what you got.

Actually Its 3 feedings, who is it benifiting, well no one, who is it hurting, well according to you my snakes, but since you do not know my snakes nor have you seen them I'd say that they are not hurting. If you want to say that they are with out seeing them or anything i guess you can make that assumption.

My intial post was not trollish, funny how damn near ever topic started about co-hab is by anti co-habs, yea you want to make your point how its not wise and the dangers of it. But I am not seeing to many topics of two snakes living fine together, which does happen its just that we dont need to thumb our noses at the anti-cohabs that it can be done. Maybe thats what i should start to do, Ill take a picture every month of my happy snakes living together so that every one can see that it is possible.

about being adults i'm hoping that outside this tread if a question comes of a problem some one is having, hey maybe it will be me one day, that we can answer the question and not be bitter that someone opposes your view.

 

[jazzgeek]

Maybe thats what i should start to do, Ill take a picture every month of my happy snakes living together so that every one can see that it is possible.

1. Exactly how do you believe this will persuade those who oppose your view in what is the "religious debate" in this hobby? This has as much sense as Planned Parenthood deciding to upload a clip on YouTube of a safe, legal abortion.
2. Please provide objective proof of your snake's emotional state, i.e., "happiness".
3. Everyone here already knows that it's "possible". Most people who have earned a modicum of respect and "cred" advise against it.

regards,
jazz

 

[jazzgeek]

1) pet stores cohab because it is all about profit and space.

2) cohab can be done but it doesn't mean it should be

3) No matter how lovable they are corns are still wild animals. Wild animals should never be taken for granted no matter how nice they are. They are going to do what instinct and personality compels them to do. Failure to realize this can result in incidents like that of a certain Vegas magician and tiger. But instead of you getting hurt it will be the other snake.

4) Anyone who has ever done any research on snakes would know that most snake species live solitary lives and come together only for mating.

For all of 16 posts (as of this post) in this forum, we have the makings of a civil, rational, forum superstar. :cheers:

(And bonus points on the Siegfried and Roy reference!)

regards,
jazz

 

[diamondlil]

Definitely worth bonus points for that!

 

[ZoologyMajor]

:dancer: Hehe thanks.

 

[Roy Munson]

Actually Its 3 feedings, who is it benifiting, well no one, who is it hurting, well according to you my snakes, but since you do not know my snakes nor have you seen them I'd say that they are not hurting. If you want to say that they are with out seeing them or anything i guess you can make that assumption.

You still haven't answered WHY you do it. Three whole feedings? How could I question your expertise! :grin01:

My intial post was not trollish, funny how damn near ever topic started about co-hab is by anti co-habs, yea you want to make your point how its not wise and the dangers of it. But I am not seeing to many topics of two snakes living fine together, which does happen its just that we dont need to thumb our noses at the anti-cohabs that it can be done. Maybe thats what i should start to do, Ill take a picture every month of my happy snakes living together so that every one can see that it is possible.

What? You really need to go back and look at the cohab threads. Very few of them are started by "anti co-habs". Who knows what else you're trying to say? You have next to zero experience. You're out of your league. Not one person here takes you seriously.

about being adults i'm hoping that outside this tread if a question comes of a problem some one is having, hey maybe it will be me one day, that we can answer the question and not be bitter that someone opposes your view.

What are you huffing? Your "view" isn't qualified enough for me to consider in this respect. You know nothing. You're an empty bag of bravado. Everyone who reads your opinions already knows this.

Don't mess with the bull, son...

 

[Corny Noob]

OR YOU GONNA GIT THE HORNS.

...sorry I get to involved in reading these online tennis matches.

 

[susang]

I'm scared, but still reading it can only go in one direction from here. Since we can't 'chat' we have to have soemthing to keep us busy.:dancer:

 

[Siren]

Petco, Petsmart, all those large box companies, I can go on and on about all the stupid things I see them do. From the wrong food, to the wrong substrate, to crap like this.

I work in a mom/pop pet shop. And when we get our baby corn snakes in, yes, we keep them together. But first, they sell so fast, they don't stay together for long. Second, they are all well fed, with strict feeding schedules. Believe me, if my boss saw one box isn't checked off, he will be on their asses to make sure it happens. Third, if they see any trouble, they will separate them. They have been 8 years in business and never had an incident like that ever. We don't recommend cohabs for life, but at a hatchling age, we let them cohab together unless we have a lot of empty cages. Then we'll fill them, a snake in each.

 

[Duff]

1. Please provide objective proof of your snake's emotional state, i.e., "happiness".

This is always my favorite argument. I agree that you can't really prove co-habbed snakes are happy about having roomies, but, at the same time, how can you prove they never are? If you're going to use an argument in a debate, it shouldn't be one that works for both sides.

The other point I love is the whole cannibal thing. Corn snakes are NOT cannibalistic, they are opportunistic. No one knows the story behind this picture. If fed properly and responsibly, would the incident still have happened? Can't be proven, but IMO, they probably weren't feeding responsibly or correctly and so opportunity knocked loud enough for one or more of them. Humans aren't considered cannibalistic, but given enough survival drive, it can happen (remember the story behind the movie Alive anyone?).

I don't co-hab and I would never recommend it, but I also think that arguments should be kept within certain bounds, otherwise people just loose credibility and it turns into back and forth arguing, rather than mature debating. The intolerance of other opinions and viewpoints doesn't help matters either. There are people who would argue that just keeping snakes in captivity diminishes their quality of life and therefore shouldn't be done. Just because something prolongs life, doesn't inherently mean it improves the quality of that time. So who's to say that even just keeping wild animals captive isn't hurting them? For everything that someone feels is correct or ok, there are others who don't. So maybe people should keep that in mind before firing off, or trying to make themselves look cool in the majorities eyes by putting down people with differing opinions.

 

[MerlinsPop]

Duff's comments are the best I've seen yet. I also don't subscribe to co-habbing, but I'm not going to condemn someone else for doing it, particularly if they make sure that all the husbandry needs are tended to. I don't think it is irresponsible to co-hab under those conditions. I believe those who are opposed can make the owner aware of the potential problems, but the decision ultimately lies with the owner. We can help them make a better informed decision, at most. They weigh the risks, they accept the consequences if the risks come to fruition.

It is the very rare activity in which there is only one 'right' way to do it.

 

[Siren]

I don't condemn cohabbers either. There are always exceptions.

I know I have gotten totally bombarded by fellow beardie owners when they see my girl lives on play sand. Thing is when it comes to exotics or ANY pet, there is no definitive right or wrong way. Working at the pet shop, I can turn blue telling someone how a ground corn based diet is so bad for cats, but telling someone who's have some 16 cats in her life on 9 Lives and they were always healthy, its difficult to convince them.

The only right and wrong way is those chosen by each individual person.